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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Men are bad ladies are good

132 replies

Joiningthegang · 04/10/2012 20:16

My 3dc had a school assembly where they talked about what to do if you get lost.

Please bear in mind this is the translated by the kids version.

If they get lost they should find a lady - preferably who has children, then other ladies, then men, because they arcane be bad.

Aibu to be cross that my boys aged 6 and 4 are being given negative messages about being male. I am also cross that this sounds like "stranger danger" again when children are far more at risk from non-strangers.

Sooooo - aibu to send an email to the head (and suggestions of how to say it much appreciated.

OP posts:
EvenIfYouSeeAPoppy · 05/10/2012 13:17

I have told my 7yo that if he gets lost, he should ask for help from a policeman or woman, or a woman or man with children, first, then a woman, then a man.

InfinityWelcomesCarefulDrivers · 05/10/2012 13:18

But how would that work - would he be expected to look for a police man/woman?
Sorry...I find all this stuff really tricky

InfinityWelcomesCarefulDrivers · 05/10/2012 13:19

What I mean is, if DS is lost in M&S I'd rather her went straight to the desk. If I tell him to look for a policeman he might try to leave the shop.
I was like this as a child too - always looking for loopholes - sure he will be the same

InfinityWelcomesCarefulDrivers · 05/10/2012 13:22

and tbh I think it's fair to say approach a woman first as a woman is likely to want to help. A man is likely to also want to help just as much but also have the nagging in the back of his mind that it's inappropriate, what will people think, what if I get into trouble. Which is shocking, but I do believe that is how it is, and until that changes it will be just easier for a woman to help. I realise that makes me part of the problem, but to be frank if my DS goes missing that will be the least of my worries.

N0tinmylife · 05/10/2012 13:24

There is no doubt it is tricky! I would say the biggest risk to a lost young child is some sort of accident, so any adult is statistically likely to be better than none. Unfortunately the consequences of approaching the wrong adult can be so horrendous, that is what sticks in peoples minds!

StepAwayFromTheORANGECakes · 05/10/2012 13:55

when my 2 were small I used to say if we were in a shop to never ever go out of the shop, to stay where they are and not wander round looking for me, unless it was to go to the nearest till and say they were lost. out in the open I would always hold their hand, if in a crowd at an event, play place , beach etc we would look first for for the highest landmark like a flag or statue or something distinctive before letting them go off with instruction that if they lost us to make there way to it and stay put.

porcamiseria · 05/10/2012 14:04

sorry but i agree with this advice, as infinity said men would feel maybe uncomfortable whereas a woman with kids would WANT to help

MrsBethel · 05/10/2012 14:23

OneMoreChap, TheJoyfulPuddlejumper

I get where you're coming from, and that demonising men is not good. But when it comes to the safety of my kids, if prejudice can turn a 0.00...09% chance of something bad happening into a 0.00...01% chance, then I don't care about being PC.

MrsBethel · 05/10/2012 14:27

Another thought has just occurred to me, and it's got nothing to do with gender:

What are the chances that a random person picked off the street is a danger? Pretty bloody slim.

But, if there is a crowd of 200 people, say, what are the chances that at least one of them is a danger? Slim, obviously, but not as slim this time.

Now, what is a dodgy person likely to do if they see a child on their own and looking vulnerable? Go over and offer to help, probably.

Conclusion: the child is much better off picking the person themselves. Anyone who volunteers help is automatically about 200x (or whetever) more likely to be dodgy.

Lueji · 05/10/2012 14:33

I'd say to my DS:
police officer
person in shop till
person in shop
person with children

(the above in no particular order, whoever is closest)

anyone else, preferably in a group or crowd
go to a payphone and call 999

Biggest warning would be:
not getting in cars with strangers
not going with anyone to places with no people

I don't see that men should be uncomfortable. All they have to do is grab their mobile phones and ring the police or go to the shop/venue desk.

Lueji · 05/10/2012 14:34

Mrs Bethel is right too.

InfinityWelcomesCarefulDrivers · 05/10/2012 14:37

I agree but I think they would be.
Thanks to whoever said high landmark in open spaces, good idea, will start doing that.
Good point about person asked by child vs person offering to help, tho Tbh if I saw a child looking lost I'd like to think I'd offer tk help! I wouldn't actually think of mob phone, I would take them straight to the shop till and report them to staff - if I was with dh I'd stay with the child and send him to find a member of staff.

Pendeen · 05/10/2012 14:37

" Anyone who volunteers help is automatically about 200x (or whetever) more likely to be dodgy. "

What an awful failure of reason. :(

InfinityWelcomesCarefulDrivers · 05/10/2012 14:38

I don't agree. If I saw a lost child I would offer to help. But someone who does mean harm would be likely to do the same.

MrsBethel · 05/10/2012 14:39

I'd say don't get in cars with anyone. It always seems to be the 'friend of the family' you hear about on the news.

getmorenappies · 05/10/2012 14:40

Anyone who volunteers help is automatically about 200x (or whetever) more likely to be dodgy.

I think you may want to give that statement a little more thought.

OneMoreChap · 05/10/2012 14:41

MrsBethel isn't right at all, and is self-contradicting viz.

I get where you're coming from, and that demonising men is not good. But when it comes to the safety of my kids, if prejudice can turn a 0.00...09% chance of something bad happening into a 0.00...01% chance, then I don't care about being PC.

fine.

But I point out the danger increases hugely from new partners of women and she says

A new partner adds a load of positive stuff to the equation, which probably dwarfs the safety considerations.

Now, what is a dodgy person likely to do if they see a child on their own and looking vulnerable? Go over and offer to help, probably

and that's dangerous because idiots convince men - ordinary men, probably with kids - to not help because some tosspot will identify them with a scumbag child murderer... which does what?
Hugely lead to the conclusion you're suggesting.

Good luck stringing up those paediatricians.

InfinityWelcomesCarefulDrivers · 05/10/2012 14:41

That doesnt mean if you offer help you are dodgy. But a child is safer by picking, by themselves, the person they want to help them. There's no arguing with that.

MrsBethel · 05/10/2012 14:41

Pendeen

Hey, I said it had just occurred to me, so I'm not stating it as fact, just putting an idea out there. I'm open to it being as failure of reason, but if so, how?

InfinityWelcomesCarefulDrivers · 05/10/2012 14:42

Omc I don't follow your logic.

BobsDaddy · 05/10/2012 14:42

Anyone who volunteers help is automatically about 200x (or whetever) more likely to be dodgy.

That's disgusting and you must live a lonely and scared life if that is what you believe. I (a man) would help not because I am dodgy, not even because I am a parent but because it would be the right thing to do.

In fact, I have helped a little lost boy. I certainly did worry about how it would look, but there was a snowball in hell's chance that I was going to walk on by. Anyway, boy's father tracked him down as I was trying to work out what to do, said a very grateful 'thanks mate' and walked off with his son in tow lecturing him about wandering off.

OneMoreChap · 05/10/2012 14:43

Lueji
I don't see that men should be uncomfortable. All they have to do is grab their mobile phones and ring the police or go to the shop/venue desk.

... or, by this response, more likely walk off and leave the child crying.

I have no obligation to help someone who's lost their mummy/been feckless enough to lose their child. I do it because I'm a parent and understand distress.

OneMoreChap · 05/10/2012 14:44

InfinityWelcomesCarefulDrivers what didn't I explain properly, I'm a tad cross if I sound incoherent and mouth frothing. Sorry Grin

InfinityWelcomesCarefulDrivers · 05/10/2012 14:45

People are making the usual mistake that a implies b also means b implies a. If you offer help it does not make it more likely you are 'dodgy' for want of a better word. I can imagine Its the case (but have no evidence) that if you're dodgy you are more likely to offer help. That makes sense. I would prefer my child to pick someone from a crowd to approach, rather than the self selecting sample of people who offer help - the vast majority of which, if not all, through altruism

GuybrushThreepwodWasHere · 05/10/2012 14:46

I was always taught to approach professional looking people (e.g. a shop assistant, security guard or just someone with a work badge on) and to avoid people that spontaneously offer you stuff or that try to move you away from safety

I know this won't sit well with a lot of people but the majority of people are safe and wouldn't harm a lost child at all. All of the 'stranger danger' stuff is based on presumption and 'common sense' rather then clean cut evidence so YANBU to voice your concern with the message that your children are getting OP