mothers who plan to bottle feed should take in their own milk

[thebeesnees79]

If a woman decided prior to baby being born they shouldn't expect the hospital to provide bottles and milk they should bring their own?
Why should the nhs give out milk? aibu?

Stanley we are not far off further privatisation of the NHS. This government are out sourcing all sorts. For example the private one to one midwives who are NHS funded, to take pressure off the shortage of staff. The out sourcing of things like operations where NHS waiting lists are high. Its all happening already and a bill to change the NHS and part privatise has already gone through the house of lords.
England have to pay for prescriptions for example (nominal fee i know) but Scotland and Wales get theirs free.
Its dangerous to say its not fell apart yet so lets not think of ways to save money.

Do you have any figures then on how much the nhs spends on infant milk?

This seems a very odd place to start of its purely about saving money. Very very odd.

I am not saying this is a starting point I posted because someone in a due in forum thought milk should be provided as she was planning to ff & it got me thinking.
When I worked on the wards we would have patients fighting over pillows (I am a mental health nurse) & you would see patients taking two or three pillows from a bed when someone was discharged. of course then the ward would have a shortage for the next person who used that bed.
It was the same with all laundry stock, pj's sheets blankets etc. everything was squeezed tight. As staff you were not allowed to eat off the patients trolly (hot food) even if it was being put in the bin! It was a disciplinary action if you did.
I think if the public knew how much of a struggle it could be for basic day to day items they would be shocked.

When dd3 was readmitted to the children's ward I was bf and even I wasn't provided with any food. The nurse said it was due to cuts and no parents are provided with food. Dd3 was admitted at 7pm and I didn't eat till lunchtime the next day.

fuck off

Hmmm, my sister fully intended to breast feed her twins. Went in to hospital when she developed pre-eclampsia at 34 weeks. Very sudden emergency c section performed, babies came out alive but had to go in to scbu and sis was clinging on to life in ITU for 10 days.

Hospital provided formula, sis was not expected to survive but she did . I'm fairly sure in the scbu of that hospital they never had and still don't have a 'bring your own milk policy'. Is that the case in all special care baby units?

Birth of my second second child, emergency c section, I'd planned to bf but was v v weak and couldn't hold baby. Transpired I had rapidly 'acquired' a v serious infection and my abdomen was at risk of becoming gangrenous. Moved to side room, delirious for 5 days as hospital battled to get infection under control. Don't remember anything about the birth or those 5 days. Was able to leave after 11 days but in a wheelchair (not yet strong enough to walk independently). My dh slept in a chair by my side for a week and fed ds formula, other family rallied round to give dh break during the day and came in to do feeds/changes/cuddles as I was pretty much a zombie until the last few days before my discharge. First held ds (with help from dh) when he was 9 days old.

That hospital's policy was for people to bring in their own formula, but we were not asked to do so.

I do think it depends on the situation, but I'm sure the time is coming where everyone will be told to bring in formula in case they are unfortunate enough to have things go seriously wrong, leaving the mother unable to breastfeed or express breast milk.

....so we'll all have to bring in formula even if we planned to bf is my point.

When I had my children, in 2 different hospitals, I saw formula being given out in those little pre made disposable bottles. No questions asked it seemed. It's personal choice and we should all have a choice. It's probably more practical for hospital to provide formula than sterilising facilities. What if someone has had a c section but wants to ff, shes hardly going to be wandering off 2hrs later to sterilise bottles and prepare formula.

I had my babies in the US. Formula was provided in a little under the baby-bassinet storage area (along with manufacturer coupons). If the baby was in the newborn nursery for observation you could ask not to have the nurses feed the baby formula -- I don't know where the formula came from if it was fed in the nursery. Presumably supplied by formula manufacturers who had some arrangement with the hospital. Such is life in a for profit health system. Breastfeeding advocates complained about what looked like hospital sponsorship of formula and maybe they had a point.

The hospital provided all the women's sanitary supplies, and as many as you could hope or wish for pads, ice packs, stretchy post natal granny knickers to accommodate the giant pads and ice packs as well as hospital gowns, the ones that leave you bare in the back; I never encountered anyone wearing their own nightie or T-shirt from home. The trick was to wear two, one tied in front and one tied in back. There were plenty of changes stored in the bedside locker. The pads were a name brand pad and there was a coupon in the bassinet so you could get money off your next packet when you went home.

They also provided all nappies ('diapers') and wipes (again, with coupons from the manufacturer). They were all stored in the little bassinet in a cupboard under where the baby lay. If you wanted to, you could dress your baby in the little shirts the hospital provided actually because of the number of examinations the babies were subjected to (they liked it if you did this instead of clothes from home that took more time to unsnap and close again) and kept the baby wrapped in the cotton flannel receiving blankets they also provided. I still have the little vests and blankets and the little cotton hats made from what looked like a piece of cut up sock with a knot tied at one end the nurse told me they were all mine to take home if I wished after DD1 was born. It would have cost the hospital more to wash and sterilise the baby clothing items than to get new ones.

All I had to bring was a towel and a pair of socks really, plus clothes and underwear to go home in and clothes to put the baby in when going home, and a bag for all the loot (a few nappies and the wipes, a nasal bulb syringe, blanket, little hosp vests and hats). And of course a car seat. They wouldn't discharge you without a car seat.

I did have to wander to the nurses' station at about 7 am the morning after DD1 was born looking for breakfast. It had been delivered to the birthing suite where I had started labour but I had been moved to regular L & D when I had an epidural and DD1 had needed close monitoring, and then I had been transferred to a room, so the kitchen had lost track of me. The nurses managed to find a breakfast for me and I finally ate at around 9 am.

How exactly would you be sure that your own bottles and nipples were being returned to you after sterilisation in a hospital?

OP, I worked in a big psychiatric hospital years ago and I remember the struggle to get enough bedding for everyone very well.

I have never planned to FF. I managed to breast feed DD1 all the time in hospital. With DD2, she got taken from me and whisked to special care, then to a hospital 50 miles away. Hard to BF in those circumstances, though I tried to express. My milk had dried up in shock.

With DS, I was in ITU for the first night after his birth, then joined my hungry 10lb 5oz baby the next day. I mentioned to the MW that I wanted to BF and she told me that that was not a good idea, I was too weak and he was too big and hungry.

Now, noone else on the ward would have heard that or necessarily been aware of the circumstances, so they may have thought I couldn't be bothered to feed him and that I was using valuable NHS resources (even though it is donated my the milk companies).

mathanxiety I had DC3 in Canada and my experience was very similar, I even got a birthday cupcake with a candle sent up to my room as DD was born on my 30th birthday.

The hospital provided pretty much everything. Oh and when I was around 6 months pregnant I received a shiny new changing bag through the post complete with a can of Nestle Good Start formula and two Nuk bottles.....and a shed load of coupons.

I have also had two NHS babies.

YANBU I don't get what the big deal of the OP's comments are. They do this in NZ hospitals (the ones I have encountered anyway). If formula is REQUIRED (ie mum can't bf, baby needs top-up etc) then they will provide.

Given the stated health guideline is that all being well, bf is what should happen, it would be hypocritical for them to routinely provide formula as an option. It doesn't mean ff mums are second-class citizens. It just means that where you are making feeding choice that is different from the NHS's policies you should provide your own supplies.

Children get food in hospital why shouldn't babies?

I think it's a really silly and pointless op.

The hospital milk you get comes in pre sterilised throw away bottles and is already made up.Getting hold of a steriliser was bad enough(when I had to go back in).For many mums said baby may be their first so will need training on sterilising/making up powdered milk(not really what a time strapped midwife should be doing).

Given the nasty bugs that can be found in hospitals I personally would rather have pre sterilised and made up milk than taking my chances with hospital water,sterilisers and opened tins of milk.

Also when you've just given birth either way fannying around making up bottles (when you can just open up something safe and ready)is not an option.After my 2 c/s I couldn't get out of bed let alone locate a sterilser,make my baby wait and make up a bottle.

If the world wants to be so petty then I'd rather pay £10 on my last midwife home visit(finding cash,wasting nursing time purchasing is daft on a ward)in order to cover said milk the world seems to begrudge tiny babies so much.

I think the problem with the OP is that if it's truly about cost saving it's a bizarre place to start bearing in mind the inordinate amounts of money spent in other areas. For example, they employ massive numbers of temp staff in the NHS and their jobs are to simply find lost files!

It actually makes it worse that you have worked in a hospital because surely you would have more incite into the fact formula purchasing isn't a major cost saving area.

It therefore comes across as an attack on women who pre chose to FF.

Can you see why you have annoyed so many people OP? Genuine question?

I don't think you even know the cost of this to the nhs, if it's even widely available.

It's just totally bizarre. Why not pick on crutches or puddings or pillows?

OP, if you search in the archives there's a thread from mears for example, from 2010 about her hospital (she's a midwife) introducing the policy whereby mothers planning to ff have to bring their own. It's not in aibu so there are no fuck offs and personal attacks. Just in case you want to see a thread about the same topic whch isn't a bunfight. There are plenty of others too.

wannabe, it's not only true and legal, I think it's standard in most hospitals. Non bfing mothers (fathers, grandparents, carers etc too) are not fed. I was in with ds who had pneumonia at 5 months and they clearly state on admission, there are also signs everywhere explaining it, parents are not fed unless you are diabetic, a bfing mother and one other exception which I forget. Our hospital are a bit more sensible about it though. You can order a meal from the ward when they come and take the children's orders and you pay for it. It's about £1.50 for a meal (including starter and pudding) and there's a kitchen with free tea and coffee making facilities, a fridge, toaster and microwave and a lounge area.

As somebody explained this is a children's ward policy, not a maternity ward policy. Goldenlula had been discharged. She was not the patient, her baby was.

Nim we're talking about newborn babies not adults/visitors who aren't even patients.

Whilst we're on the subject mothers who have just given birth are given food as they are patients or should ffing mothers in pain now not be entitled to food either?

I know this policy is in operation some places nim. But this thread is mooting it purely as a cost saving to the nhs, seems an odd one.

I was a bf mother when dd3 was readmitted 4 days after leaving Scbu. I wasn't fed.

Nim, as I said my point was more the fact that dd had become the patient and still she would not be provided with food but had dd not been considered as poorly I would still have been a patient as we were both in a maternity unit and were then discharged from the ward to go straight to the other hospital to the children's ward. I saw no signs as we arrived at about 10.30 pm and once they decided to admit dd at about midnight we were taken straight to a room and that was that. Food was not mentioned. No offer of ordering fod like your hospital is in pace. Dd was not allowed out of her room so would have meant me leaving her in a room alone for some considerable time while I went to get food. I would happily have paid for my meal in the way you say. Again even to have a cup of tea would mean leaving dd alone while I drank it as no hot drinks were allowed on the ward (accept at the nurses station, where infant hey would have posed a greater risk as the children could get in there than in my room with a non moving 3 day old!)
Also I will repeat again my point out again my first post was to point out that the not providing milk for babies in the long term has nothing to do with whether or not they are the patient as even when they are the patient it isn't provided. When I had ds1 (nearly 7 years ago) I was led to believe the asking people to provide their own milk was more an exercise in promoting bf, but after my experience with dd I believe it is more to do with cost. Both maternity wards and the children's ward had milk kitchens with all you needed, you just provided the bottles and milk.

"Nim we're talking about newborn babies not adults/visitors who aren't even patients."

No, I'm responding to goldenlula's story. She explained then when her baby was moved to the children's ward after they'd been discharged from the maternity unit, she wasn't fed as she wasn't bfing. A lot of people expressed incredulity/disgust. I explained that this is common in many hospitals, including mine. On children's wards, the children are patients and therefore fed. Parents aren't fed if they're staying with the patient, unless bfing, diabetic and one other reason at our hospital though I forget what it was. Ffing mothers, fathers or other family members staying on the ward with the child are NOT fed.

goldenlula, I'm not disputing that the way you were treated is abysmal. I was merely responding to the issue of who is fed on a children's ward, pointing out to people like wannabe who disputed that this is hospital policy anywhere and to people who were shocked that your hospital did this, that it's normal policy in many hospitals. Our hospital has at least thought about the practicalities of this policy and put other procedures in place to provide parents with food.

Sadly hospitals are totally screwed up in many ways. I had dd by emcs late at night and had no food until breakfast as the kitchen was closed for example. The whole system seems to be shoddy in many ways.

Nim, yes your hospital has and part of me is thinking of writing to our local trust and suggesting that as a better way of doing things. In some ways, in my case, it was a bit silly as I could have been sent back to the maternity ward as we were both still patients. I would have then been able to access the bf support workers and had one to on help while dd was looked after in the same way as she was. I wold still need to provide milk but I would have been in a more comfortable bed (a put you up 2 days post section is not the most comfortable) and proper midwife support.

I do think a strongly worded letter is needed but if you can put in practical suggestions, that might be a very good idea. They need to change something fgs. Is dd well now? Did you recover from the whole thing well (physically and emotionally)?

I wonder if they'd have allowed you to stay in maternity? Our hospital was v v keen on discharging you by day 2. I was discharged 12hrs after dd and on day 2 with ds. With dd, they were practically pushing us out the door. She hadn't even latched on once.

I always assumed the formula companies give the ready made milk (in disposable bottle with teats on) to the hospitals for free. It makes perfect sense that they would as it is great marketing for them. If a mother is given there brand of milk to feed her newborn then she is more likely to purchase the same brand after leaving hospital.

I breastfed mine while on hospital but as DS was older he was often rushed over to hospital as an emergency & I sometimes didn't have time to make up bottles. The children's wars had a big cupboard full of ready made formula, nappies etc. Again, I assumed these items were 'donated' by the private companies concerned & will have been paid for our of their huge marketing budgets, so I didn't delay guilt about using NHS resources when I was given milk for my child.

childrens wards feel guilt, not 'delay'