to ask how you feel about Scottish Independence?

[PierreBourdieu]

Particularly looking for opinions from South of the Border, but all opinions welcome. My FB is awash with Independence fever after the rally in Edinburgh yesterday. As a Scotwoman I am always interested to hear the views of the English and get that perspective. I'll not disclose whether I'm pro or anti as I suppose it's not relevant here, also not looking for a bunfight! Care to share?

We already have Queen Elizabeth, Queen of Scots, and there are no plans to become a republic.

(NB! Not QE2 and not Queen of Scotland. )

I think you're all missing the most serious ishoo of all....

Will bucky be affected by high export taxes and therefore reduce their sales to nil

Won't somebody think of the Monks

Maybe Barrs should consider a merger with the Abbey rather than Britvic? :)

Oh yes red - that would be a good idea

panicing now that irn bru may become even harder to get hold of south of the border

There's a business opportunity here...

Could you add tablet to your business plan, CatPower?

This English woman couldn't care less tbh.

Have a vote and either stay or go.

Not to b rude but it's not something I personally care about but if you go then go for total independence.

Tablet, Caramac, Highland Toffee, Wham Bars, Irn Bru bars and Soor Plooms will follow, Biscuit. ;)

Can we come too?

Love, Yorkshire.

I'm English (although i think that's the first time i've ever identified as such, rather than as british) in England, and fwiw I think it'd be really sad if Scotland chose to leave the union. It's a shame that parts of the thread have been so negative, but I'm encouraged that lots of people in Scotland are saying they'll vote no!

Did anyone watch Newsnight Scotland last night.

A very, very interesting piece indeed ;-)

ItsAllGoingToBeFine

We are voting for the ability to manage our own affairs.

You aren't doing anything of the sort. You're voting to hand over your country to the EU. Your currency will become the Euro (because the EU Constitution states that every nation which joins the EU has to have the Euro at their currency at some point). Your country's defence, agricultural, fisheries, trade, employment (and many other) laws will be made in Brussels and Strasbourg.

You'll have even less representation than you have now.

If you want independence, be independent. But don't call leaving the UK and becoming one with the EU 'independence', because it isn't.

To a certain extent it is leap into the unknown. It is voting for a dream. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

There's everything wrong with that. If you don't know what exactly you're voting for, then why vote at all?

Members of the EU are expected to join the euro when their citizens agree to it. Nobody in the EU is forced to join the euro, indeed several EU members have held referendums where their population have rejected the euro.

Re currency, I have had discussions with someone far more knowledgeable than myself and I think this is what was said.

Scotland currently prints its own currency. Scottish banks hold reserves to back this currency.

The pound is a tradeable currency. This means that any country in the world can adopt the pound at any time. It requires no permission from the bank of England.

In the same way us dollars are often used as currency in areas other than the us. The caveat with this is that the value of the currency is dictated by the home nation, BOE for the pound, federal reserve for the dollar etc.

So on independence Scotland can keep the pound. There is bugger all the bank of England can do about it. In the same way Scotland could choose to adopt the dollar, the euro, the yen, or any other tradeable currency.

As already mentioned, if Scotland chooses to use a tradeable currency then interest rates would be outside Scotland's control. This is the same if scotland Continues with the pound or moves to the euro.

Therefore, it would make sense to keep using the pound as that is what Scotland currently prints and has reserves for.

I hope i'm reading that last post right with the quote and counter quotes in the message.

If so, its absolute bunkum Sorry but its so far off the mark its laughable. Would recommend you read page 18 for the finance part of this discussion, Being forced to join the Euro isn't an option, never was. The whole paragraph is a rightwing, über unionist rant without foundation. Real UKIP stuff. Its on a par with the comments a few months ago in the media that England would bomb Scottish airports. What next?

There is a white paper due soon to officially put to bed this Euro rumour rubbish and that'll be that.

Over 60% of Scots trust the Scottish Government to run all of its affairs at the moment (61% to be precise with the latest -British- Government Social Attitudes survey) and that can only rise in time. Sounds like a lot of people want us to be Independent from the loons running our affairs from afar.

Sorry was slightly hyperactive after drinking lots of Coca-Cola (full sugar) of course yesterday pm; so please ignore my 'me for Scottish Queen' comment & continue the sensible debate...

.... but please can everyone be nice (not too nice obv, that's boring) & stop the English v Scottish rudeness. Life is far far too short for that shitty behaviour.

(I said before how i dislike nationalism - Scottish, English or from anywhere else - there's pride & patriotism which is fine, but extreme nationalism leads to no good.)

PS. if Scotland do leave the union can i say that a Union Jack with no blue will not look good. Sorry Scotland therefore you can't have independence

ItsAllGoingToBeFine

Members of the EU are expected to join the euro when their citizens agree to it. Nobody in the EU is forced to join the euro, indeed several EU members have held referendums where their population have rejected the euro.

All those referenda were held before the Lisbon Treaty which made it a constitutional requirement for nations who join the EU to adopt the Euro.

As you can read here, on the EU's website, under the Treaty, all EU Member States have to join the euro area once the necessary conditions are fulfilled, except Denmark and the United Kingdom which have negotiated an 'opt-out' clause that allows them to remain outside the euro area.

The words above are a direct quote from the website.

All EU member states have to join the euro area once the necessary conditions are fulfilled. There is no referendum needed or consultation with the voters.

It wouldn't be immediate - but it would be inevitable.

Yes, inevitable once the EU and the Scottish people are ready. The Euro will never be forced on any member state, they join when they are ready.

www.guardian.co.uk/politics/reality-check-with-polly-curtis/2012/jan/11/would-an-independent-scotland-join-the-euro

www.guardian.co.uk/politics/reality-check-with-polly-curtis/2012/jan/11/would-an-independent-scotland-join-the-euro

There's a good example here of why Sweden won't join until they want to. See Page 6

docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:zg0JumadEU8J:www.eu-upplysningen.se/Global/EU-upplysningen/PDF/Sweden_in_the_EU.pdf+why+hasn't+sweden+joined+the+euro&hl=en&gl=uk&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESgvRzfyinO9ulGdj5YswfS7815aNjjgkzTfB9lyh62r1T28qW-wklBwyFXeiMLhjpcIhUtXY1KkYYSqQw04EEoO6kfhjqdOR1BTKVGP4-oxcRl8ms7q4DyqiySxj4fNpmPISGMD&sig=AHIEtbR0KbfWTSm9lEmR_PH9AAV6igYnVQ&pli=1

If you don't want to read the link joining the euro requires certain conditions to be met. If a country chooses to not to meet those conditions then they will not be able to join the euro.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Tue 25-Sep-12 11:44:16

Yes, inevitable once the EU and the Scottish people are ready. The Euro will never be forced on any member state, they join when they are ready.

You've been implying, all along, that Scotland will be able to keep whatever currency it chooses, for as long as it wants. This clearly isn't the case. It is nothing to do with the Scottish People. It is up to the politicians. Economic convergence is all that matters here. There's no referendum, no consultation process. Once you're in the EU, you WILL adopt the Euro at some point.

The Sweden case is irrelevant since Sweden joined pre-Lisbon.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine

If you don't want to read the link joining the euro requires certain conditions to be met. If a country chooses to not to meet those conditions then they will not be able to join the euro.

Convergence is a requirement, not an option. The Euro is a requirement, not an option.

You seem to be under the impression that you can pick and choose which bits of the Lisbon Treaty you fancy.

Just back from having a coffee in a nice little cafe down south. man on next table was loudly educating his companion on how we English subsidise the Scots so they can get free prescriptions and uni education, etc. Seems they get 10 grand per person of the English tax payers money compared to 7 grand for the English.

Why doesn't the government come out and just clear this up once and for all, they must have the figures.

Scottish patriotism baffles me. I'm not Scottish but have many relatives who have moved there and to my surprise they have become VERY patriotic and pro-Scottish, which often means anti-English too.

Getting independence seems irrational to me. I'm not an expert on economics, but it seems to me that Scotland's wealth is not distributed - Scotland never had land reform meaning a few very rich landlords own a lot of the land. Meanwhile Glasgow has some of the most deprived areas in the UK. I think Scotland has a lot of problems that need sorting out that won't be solved by the magic wand of independence.