to ask how you feel about Scottish Independence?

[PierreBourdieu]

Particularly looking for opinions from South of the Border, but all opinions welcome. My FB is awash with Independence fever after the rally in Edinburgh yesterday. As a Scotwoman I am always interested to hear the views of the English and get that perspective. I'll not disclose whether I'm pro or anti as I suppose it's not relevant here, also not looking for a bunfight! Care to share?

Scot living in London past 15 years.

I don't think it's a great idea. But I do wonder if it goes through what changes it will make to the Scottish psyche. Anytime I visit there now the news/current affairs just seems to be dominated about anything and everything Scottish. It's as if it overrides anything else. Not sure if I am explaining myself well, but I know what I mean. There are huge sways of Scots who just want dissociation with England and I wonder where that energy will be directed if Scotland does become independent.

Arts and Humanities World Rankings Edinburgh (11), St Andrews (24)
Medicine World rankings Edinburgh (25) Glasgow (45)
Life Sciences world rankings Edinburgh (23) Glasgow (43)

For example, friends here often heavily criticise coalition governments in countries such as Holland (which I think had around 10 parties winning a substantial number of votes in the recent General Election), yet they fail to realise that a one or two party state whose parties share the same policies is extremely odd. They also fail to grasp that in some other countries, the emphasis is on co-operating together with those who lie in a slightly different place on the political spectrum to yourselves, not on fighting against them and using so much energy in keeping them out of power in some modern day revival of clan warfare.

It really is an oddity, politically, and I can't see that it would be anything other than a recipe for a dogma ridden, state controlled horror as independent.

Puremince (I am so sorry, I nearly typed "Pureeminence"!), I am left wondering which subjects are dragging the rankings down so much?

Betty
I know what you mean - it's as if the media sets the agenda for discussion and the tone of the discussion too?

I'm Scottish and live in Scotland - personally i'm not for independence, the world is a big place and I think we are all stronger together.

Good luck with that! I'm English and have lived in Scotland. Fabulous place spoiled by a large chunk of bigoted, small minded anti - English people.
Good luck with running your own economy..let's not dwell on the trams or parliament buildings as examples of your excellent fiscal planning. Let's not forget, it only took one Scottish prime minister and two Scottish banks to bring the U.K to its knees.
But yes, I hear you cry, you have the oil. (yawn)

mousemole seriously? Have you read the thread, what an utterly ridiculous post.

I have seen more awful comments and digs against Scottish people on here than I have ever heard against English people in real life.

There are many many English people and other nationalities living in Scotland who are actively campaigning for Independence, indeed there are even SNP MSP's and party members that are from England.

I don't know anyone that hates the English, why would they?

Scottish, living in Scotland, I'll be voting against independence.

I don't trust Salmond or Sturgeon at the best of times, but especially not now when they're being very secretive (eg with regard to the EU status/entry).

fanny have you lived in Scotland ?

As an English person, I think it's up to the Scots to decide on the independence question and it's nothing to do with me at all. It'll be interesting to see how the Scots actually vote - looking forward to that.

Regarding differences in Scottish/English culture etc, it's worth remembering that Northern English and Lowland Scots are more or less the same people - there was a lot of settlement by the Angles at almost exactly the same time that the Scotti were arriving in what is now Western Scotland. The English kingdom of Northumbria used to stretch all the way up to Edinburgh, the name of the city Edin-burgh is English in itself. The Scots language has a lot in common with Northumbrian English, too. 'Lang may your lumb reek!' as the Scottish blessing goes, though 'Lang', 'lumb' and 'reek' are all English words.

Anyway, I guess identity is all, even though genetically you would be hard pressed to spot the difference betwen a Northumbrian and a Lothian.

Mousemole Gordon Brown and the banks didn't fuck up the economy because they're Scottish, they fucked it up because of the crazy borrowing/rates etc. Nationality had nothing to do with it, but you keep that little chip on your shoulder if it makes you feel special.

Mousemole - I've lived in Scotland all my life, born in a tiny highland village etc etc, my Dad is English, and the most bigoted opinions I've heard lately are, err, yours. Cheerio.

Catpower, my opinions are formulated from my own experiences. Like walking into a pub where England are playing France and everyone is supporting France. Seeing on sale T- shirts and souvenirs saying ' I support anyone but the English'. Get's a bit wearing after a while.

As CatPower said, whilst i'm no fan of Brown, i'll begrudgingly praise him for his attempts to fight the inevitability of banking collapse in 2008, and history will judge him well for his efforts in the end..,,,going OT however.

Its good so far to see many different groups supporting the March and Rally on Saturday though, its not just a Alex and Nicola shindig. The Socialist groups were there, CND, Greend, a broad left coalition including an amazing Labour party speaker who for me, stole the show and I think you'll see the SNP stand back and let the 'Yes Scotland' group run with the game a bit more.

Christ if that is who you have got, god help you, socialists, the greens and CND what ab unholy triumvirate of people with little or no grip on reality!

And brown was a walking disaster!

In some areas, defiantly agree. His internal party discipline and paranoia is legendary. Not a people person. Not his greatest fan.

On the economy. History will play out favourably.. Distancing my dislike for him as a person, and credit where credits due...

Love the idea of you defiantly agreeing

Yes he just gave the creeps all the time. I am aware that this is not a political standpoint that I am able to defend rigorously!

mousemole I am from Fife, I grew up in Fife, I have been to University and lived in both Dundee & Edinburgh, I have also lived through the west and spent time living near Banff. I live near St Andrews which had a very high number of English residents, students and otherwise. No problem there.

I have also lived and travelled abroad, Ireland for several years.

I have English friends and family who are voting YES, they have never felt out of place in Scotland, why would they?

There's banter wherever you live if people are from outwith the area, there's a guy from Glasgow in our village who is known as "weedgie bob" for example.

The anyone but England thing is pretty much due to the commentary we have to put up with, no matter the game & who is playing the are generally talking about England.
The commentary teams are never gracious in defeat, becomes funny then.

Agree with FannyFifer on the "Anyone But England" thing, it's nothing to do with the team themselves, everything to do with the commentary/media, "England Expects" bollocks.

(I always support England when they play internationals as it's about as close to seeing a home nation in a decent competition as I'll get, since Scotland haven't qualified for a World Cup since France 98.

Ahhh Mr Brown. The man who said 'no one could have predicted the crash of 2008'.

Except of course all the people who did. (DH and his mate had a sweep stake going on when it was going to happen for about eighteen months before it did... His mate won. DH wasn't far out).

So yeah, the amount of respect for him I have is somewhat limited...

Then it all gets blamed on all the banks. But people lived beyond their means and took out loans they couldn't afford and were more than 100% of their mortgage. They failed to take responsibility for their own finances and took the very blinkered and stupid idea attitude that 'if I couldn't afford it, then no one would lend it to me'. Very conveniently ignoring the possibility that economics can go up and down and that history had shown it happens on a regular basis.

Its like pass the parcel of blame. The vast majority of the government, the banks AND the public were to blame cos every single one decided to bury their head in the sand and go "la, la, la nothing bad is going to happen".

Then it did.

And everyone got fucked including the sensible savers; more fool them.

So yeah. I don't blame the Scottish. I blame people of all nationalities who don't look at the reality of economics and see the bloody obvious and inevitable coming. Including Mr Brown. Especially Mr Brown.

There is soooo much more that could have been done to stop the problems from 2008; weeks, months, years in advance. Not just panicking and dithering for a while before going "Oh shit theres a problem here we need to do something drastic".

Sadly all this also holds so true for the ramifications of Scottish Independence.

Its cloud cuckoo land ideology which sounds wonderful in a speech but looks utterly shit on paper. And its completely predictable.

And what happens when the dream doesn't become a reality and it all goes tits up? What happens to Scottish politics then? You don't have Westminister to blame for betrayal and hardship...

Just like all the other broken promises in politics, except this one is a hell of a lot bigger.

Mousemole, please don't drag down an intelligent debate with petty bigotry.

cat power

Please don't vote based on the fact you don't like Salmond/Sturgeon.

This vote transcends party politics and personalities.

Do your own research, and be sure in your own mind which path you prefer.

An independent Scotland does not equal and SNP government.

guess English students can then go to study in Scotland for free, as per all other EU countries

What! Really ? My mini Italian can go to uni in Scotland for free ?

Which Scottish uni is nearest to Sheffield ? I want him near a family member that can report back if he is misbehaving.