to ask how you feel about Scottish Independence?

[PierreBourdieu]

Particularly looking for opinions from South of the Border, but all opinions welcome. My FB is awash with Independence fever after the rally in Edinburgh yesterday. As a Scotwoman I am always interested to hear the views of the English and get that perspective. I'll not disclose whether I'm pro or anti as I suppose it's not relevant here, also not looking for a bunfight! Care to share?

I swear, right now, if the indie vote goes through I am moving to England.

Can't wait to see which side the chips fall!

Will make for an in interesting night's swingometer-ness.

The Act of Union of 1707 though . . . . . . did the Scotland not enter into that freely? 300 years of oppression? Really?

Welsh/English, living in SE Asia.

I hope it never happens. Far more likely for England/Wales to be stuck with Tories again if so.

Really wish we could have the same deal with regard to tuition fees, prescriptions etc. That is unfair, and doesn't help cohesion between England and the others.

Well, I'm English living in Southern England - i'm a small part Scottish, like the Scottish people I know; i'd love for Scotland to stay part of Britain / UK; so that's my view (which i think i said on page 2 of this debate?).

We need more unity in this world; i dislike nationalism including English nationalism.
Fuck the EDL / UKIP / BNP, yes and SNP - sorry for swearing but can't stand small minded bigots & most of those are just that.

I like Scottish culture & tbh i think Scottish culture has influenced the rest of the UK in positive ways.
I would miss it & i would miss being part of a United Kingdom.

& i really really don't want to see increased English nationalism which is what would probably happen.
IMO nationalism often leads to fascism; as the history of so many nations proves.

So i would like Scotland to vote 'no' to independence please.

Ok, so say your figures are correct, that currently Scotland could stand alone. You take on your proportion of the national debt and your currency breaks away from the Bank of England's protection.

What value would the Scottish pound have once it stepped away from the BoE? You would quite probably have to make repayments based on a lower-valued currency, which would eat into the pot somewhat.

Would you be able to take on defence? Or would you like to purchase cover from the rest of the UK?

Similarly your compatriots living abroad - how would you arrange cover for those in trouble? Set up your own embassies worldwide? Or purchase cover from the rest of the UK?

How sustainable are your assets? Apart from tourism, how long will you be able to rely on your main income streams? Oil / gas supplies are finite. Some large businesses in the past have indicated that they may move to England in the event of Scottish independence, putting at risk taxation streams.

Would you want to join the Euro to gain protection that way? Would your new currency pass the entrance tests? Would the EU be willing and able to take on another minor economy that could not contribute significantly and may require bail-out in the near future like Ireland /Spain / Greece.

If you do go down the independence route you will probably expect to keep a lot of the UK infrastructure and not pay for it. We will probably let you. Then in the not too distant future Scotland will be banging on the door to get back in, after a lot of money has been wasted. We will let you and mop up the mess.

The arguments on here for independence are like listening to teenagers who want to keep the child benefit money. They cannot see that the bigger picture and from what I have seen, neither can Alex Salmond. Devo Max is the most laughable. It would be like living in a granny flat with the main house paying the bills.

Think this subsidy myth needs to be scotched, no pun intended, once and for all. The scots have subsidised and paid more in, than taken. Treasury figures have reluctantly shown this to be evident now for longer than i can recall

There seems to be a lot of disagreement with that though Mibby.

I would really like to see some definite answers to some of the questions raised, like the ones from Biscuit. I find it Bizarre that there are still so many unanswered questions when people are expected to make an informed descision about this.

I find it hard to believe that Scotland really does pay more to the treasury than it recieves, simply because if that were true, the SNP would have made it crystal clear.

When it comes to national debt, I'd like to see that divided up equally between every single member of the population, and the UK will keep what it's people owe, and Scotland can take on its share based on its population.

English, and like most things Scottish... Really don't give two hoots.

That is the difference I find between the Scots and English. the Scots get so fired up about issues related to Entland (mostly I. A negative, unsupportive fashion). Whereas most English people treat Scotalnd like an annoying much younger brother that I guess we sort of care about, but certainly don't give a toss about what he thinks.

I say that if Sfotland want independence, give it to them. And then watch as they fall into utter obscurity in international terms.

Remember, Scotland has a very, very small population, 5 million compared to 56million rest of UK.

So we are in the enviable position of having few people to support with a huge resource export base....

Tourism, salmon, whisky and possibly most importantly renewables. Scotland is well on the way to using 100percent renewable energy, and has the capacity to to generate much much more.

Selling surplus energy, and the world leading technology developed in this process will go a long way towards supporting our relatively tiny population.

Very, very good points Biscuit. I'd be interested to see some answers.

It'sAll I'd like to see some figures for the 100% renewable energy claims.

mamababa, you ask about the maths - Scots having free prescriptions etc. Part of this is because Scotland spends much less on big infrastructure projects. Think of the infrastructure London gained from the Olympics.

Very, very crudely, English politics tend towards right wing capitalism - invest in things, and get a financial return from those things. Whereas Scotland is a bit more left-wing - invest in people e.g. university students, and get a financial return from people once they pay tax.

The free prescriptions thing isn't actually hugely expensive - England has a lot of form-filling and admin costs re people who get free prescriptions; we don't; we have a very simple system. I think more than half of prescriptions in England are free anyway, but there are heavy admin costs.

Free care for the elderly also made financial sense at the time; lots of NHS beds were being "bed-blocked" by old people who didn't really need 24 hour care, but who weren't able to live completely independently, either. Free care is cheaper than NHS admission! Of course, lots of people are entitled to free care, who wouldn't have ended up in hospital, but it's not quite the "flinging cash around, willy-nilly" policy it's often painted to be. There are real financial benefits to the NHS by providing free care and thus enabling old people to live in their own homes for longer.

Scotland could phase out all fossil fuel and nuclear power by 2030, maintain a secure electricity supply and generate significant revenue from renewable exports, according to new research by one of the world's leading energy consultants, Garrad Hassan.

It's now widely recognised that renewables could grow to comfortably exceed our electricity demand by 2020. But The Power of Scotland Secured shows that, contrary to popular myth, the variability of renewable power need not threaten the security of supply in Scotland, even in the context of a full phase out of conventional thermal power.

In fact, the transmission infrastructure required to keep the lights on at times of low renewables output will be easily justified by the value of exports which it will make possible at times of high output.

Moreover, if home heating and transport are electrified in line with the recommendations in this analysis, and modest demand management achieved, a 100% renewable grid system in Scotland could make overall household ?triple fuel? bills lower than in conventional scenarios.

This research was commissed by Friends of the Earth Scotland, and the summary published with generous assistance from WWF and RSPB.

From here: www.foe-scotland.org.uk/power-secured there are also links to the full (pdf download)report here which makes very convincing reading.

There are loads of other sources if you do a bit of googling.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine

Scotland could phase out all fossil fuel and nuclear power by 2030, maintain a secure electricity supply and generate significant revenue from renewable exports, according to new research by one of the world's leading energy consultants, Garrad Hassan.

It's now widely recognised that renewables could grow to comfortably exceed our electricity demand by 2020. But The Power of Scotland Secured shows that, contrary to popular myth, the variability of renewable power need not threaten the security of supply in Scotland, even in the context of a full phase out of conventional thermal power.

You still need conventional power plants to provide backup. You can't phase it out unless you want to live in the dark.

The FoE report makes several basic errors.

It assumes that there will be a demand for Scottish wind-electricity both at the price that Scotland wants and at the times when that power is generated.

It also considers - bizarrely - a fall in demand for electricity as a possible option.

It assumes a trebling of onshore wind production.

It assumes a fifteen-fold growth in offshore wind production.

It assumes that wave and tidal will produce the equivalent of an entire nuclear power station's worth of power by 2023 - just 11 years away - even though there isn't a single large-scale wave or tidal facility in Scotland at present.

And that's the 'Low Renewables' case.

It assumes that Carbon Capture and Storage is both technically feasible and economically feasible, when it is an unproven technology.

The whole report is ecomentalist BS. It's a fantasy. There's not a single achievable element of it, from cutting power usage to exporting wind electricity to Germany to making a profit out of wind.

In England and Wales only 1 in 10 prescriptions is paid for anyway so th vast majority are free. Particularly galling when you are one of those who pays!

I am seriously thinking of leaving MN because of this thread.

The attitudes towards the Scottish shown here are disgusting (there have been a few going the other way too but on the whole), most of the Scottish people have said they don't want independence but I get the impression that most of the English just want to get rid and watch us fall flat on or faces.

Thanks for that, I have genuinely never realised how hated we areas a nation and don't particularly want to stick around on a website where it is okay to display this so publicly.

Really disappointed and actually quite upset at some of these views, so after 6 years here I may have to call it quits :(

I am English, my father is from Aberdeen as are a lot of my relatives. Many of the attitudes on this thread are "I couldn't care less" but proceed to spout the usual yawnsome bigoted attitudes and a worrying grasp of economics when talking about dividing up the national debt in terms of head of population. We should all be fighting tooth and nail to keep the union intact. So much of anti Westminster (not English) feeling stemmed from when Thatcher was in power for years, bought in the poll tax a year early, when an overwhelming majority of Scottish people did not vote for the Conservatives.

A separate government for Scotland is right and proper. They should be able to govern their own affairs and decide what is right for their country. However, the SNP have consistently introduced policies which have been designed to be populist and a snub to what is happening in Westminster, fuelling the English and Scottish divide that has been going on since Thatcher. I know many Scottish people and I don't know one that will vote for Independence from the Union. Scotland is not a wasteland that is surviving on subsidies and tourism. It has a thriving economy. It is a country I know well and I have been going on holiday to the highlands and visiting my family in Aberdeenshire all my life. Some of you here should get to know Scotland a bit better than you do.

That's your interpretation :-) I think it is all perfectly achievable, especially when you see what Scotland has already achieved:

Scotland's renewable energy output increased by 45% in the first quarter of this year, compared with the same period last year.

UK government figures showed Scotland generated 4,590 gigawatt hours (GWh) of renewable energy in the first three months of 2012.

This was an increase of 1,435 GWh on the first quarter of 2011.

Scotland is aiming to generate the equivalent of 100% of its electricity needs from renewables by 2020.

The UK Department of Energy and Climate Change also issued revised statistics for 2011 which showed that renewable electricity generation in Scotland was 13,735 GWh in 2011, an increase of 44.3% from 2010 and up 97.3% from 2006.

The Scottish government said that, assuming gross consumption in 2011 was similar to 2010, about 35% of Scotland's electricity needs came from renewables in 2011, beating its interim target of 31%.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-18625801

Well peanut,look at who started the thread and their views and you probably can get an idea of why the thread turned out that way. As I said before,most english don't care enough to give it much thought but if a thread is started the anti will come out on both sides.

peanut, don't leave. I have avoided this thread as they always bring people like that out of the woodwork and it is depressing.

However I realised that the really strident people are actually basically really jealous of what they see as our "perks" like free prescriptions which they really believe that they pay for. (they tend to harp on about it and make digs).

Which is a) untrue and b) really sad. So don't let them drive you away!

There's no point in the English caring or giving it much thought because they aren't going to have a voice anyway. If the English are interested then that's because of their own personal reasons, but I don't think the English are obliged to make an informed opinion in the same way people should when it comes to a General Election.

They also tend to believe that all Scottish people really hate the English while gleefully taking subsidy from them.

Which is nonsense on many levels.

xposted..I meant the very strident people that Peanut was upset about

Peanut, stay or go, but I don't think it's fair to imply that the English dislike the Scottish to the extent that they want to see them fail. There is far more anti English sentiment in Scotland than there is anti Scottish sentiment in England.