To be angry that the Chief Constable chose the words..

[seeker]

"gentle" and "a chatterbox" respectively to describe the two women police officers who were murdered on duty yesterday.

Can you imagine those words ever being used to describe a man?

Pagwatch Thu 20-Sep-12 11:57:32
I said way upthread that I thought seeker had a point but I stepped away because an aibu barney seemed inappropriate. I think posting this in aibu rather than 'news' let alone feminist topic, was tasteless

and I suspect done for effect; I'm unsure whether it had the effect desired, or not.

In general, nah. People of either gender should not be referred to in dimunitive terms.

If you're under 45, I'm likely to call a bloke "young man", or "chief". If it's someone I feel closer to, it's like to be OM "Old Man".

I've also called women - but rarely - "young lady"[more likely to be school age, when I've been volunteering]
I've called women, "Boss", "Guv", "my dear", "Love", "darling", "madam" and "Captain".
I've called men, "chuck", "m'duck", "captain", "Matey", "Colonel", "sir"

The vernacular used depends on where I've been living and the context in which I speak.

Choosing this example and trying to leverage offence at the staff of the Chief Constable was an odd choice.

'The two officers in question are not the only ones being demeaned by it, all women are.'

Again, you should prefix it with 'In my opinion'...

I respect the views of the police officers on this thread but I don't agree with them.

The language was damaging and demeaning to women.

I'm a woman and I don't find it demeaning or damaging.

I'm also off.

And to add some context, we know what the general attitude and culture regarding women is in the police force, it is currntly the subject of a big debate.

One more chap

what on earth is your point...? Were you agreeing with Pagwatch?

HullyGully

My point? Use of language differs and there might be more appropriate places to start a discussion from, unless this was done to cause a reaction.

Agreeing with Pagwatch? Looks. Yes, think so.

Pagwatch I think posting this in aibu rather than 'news' let alone feminist topic, was tasteless Me and I suspect done for effect;

Isn't everything posted here on MN for effect ?

The issue of female police officers being on 'the frontline' is being debated on news programmes today.

Is that utterly disgraceful too because they television journalists and various pundits are not only concentrating on the terrible loss of these two women?

When and in what way are people allowed to debate the many issues this terrible incident has thrown up?

I wonder though, considering the discussion AROSE DIRECTLY FROM THE INCIDENT INVOLVING THE DESCRIPTION OF TWO MURDERED PROFESSIONAL (FEMALE) POLICE OFFICERS, quite how it could have been raised elsewhere?

It would have been something completely different.

Can you see how that is just a tiddly widdly bit illogical?

Quite proud.

When male officers get killed, we don't have debates about men on the frontline

QE fucking D

Blistory Indeed, and I'm not above posting for effect.

I posted about porn use in AIBU, with somewhat mixed response [including finding out that I meant erotica not porn].

I didn't choose to post that in FWR, though it was inspired by something there. If I'd done that, I would have felt I was trolling. I also expect the effect - and response - would have been different.

Hullygully

In other news, a soldier gave birth on the frontline.
Yes, a female soldier.

No, we don't have debates about men doing that...

I've an interest in policing in the UK vs ROW and the biggest debate seems to be about arming police rather than women police.

Female and male police officers can and do both serve on the frontline

Female army officers can give birth

Male ones can't

Your analogies are slightly on the weak side.

I haven't seen any debates about female pc's on the frontline.
It's been a fact of life for years, as is the female armed forces, and there's a significant amount on MN.
I still think, and I'm repeating myself, the CC only repeated the colleagues and families quotes directly after their colleagues deaths.
It was fitting and said with love and affection.
I have a niece of 26, she'll always be a girl to me.
Again if frontline female officers are disgusted by this thread, then I'm with them. There's are the voices of experience.
The CC humanised them, how was that a bad thing?
And nothing personal about Seeker either, I agreed with her about cats on another thread, and have agreed with her many other times as well.
Just not on this subject.

I think you miss my point - or more probably I didn't make it well.

The general debate seems to be less about the gender of the attending officers, largely a non-issue, and more about how police officers are equipped to deal with violent criminals.

The debate on here is about the words used to describe female professionals. The debate is deliberately hooked to an emotive issue.

That was - it seems to me - done for a specific purpose. The reasons for that aren't clear, nor is the success.

"The two officers in question are not the only ones being demeaned by it, all women are."

That ^^ is your opinion. However as the majority of the posters on this thread, including myself, AND ALSO INCLUDING A SERVING POLICE OFFICER WHO SEEMS TO BE BEING IGNORED! (yes I am shouting, because I think SharonGless has the most right to be listened to on this thread), do not feel demeaned by it, does that not tell you something?

The debate AROSE from the words used to describe female professionals in this specific instance.

I fail to see why you are unable to grasp that fairly straightforward point.

The "success" or otherwise is to be judged how?

Yes squeaky, it tells me that they need their consciousness raised.

and I am quite happy at the age of 42 to be described as a girl, what I am not happy about is someone else ranting that another person should not be saying it.

Dave Cameron is a SERVING PRIME MINISTER

do we have to take his word for everything?

Whether or not someone is or isn't a serving police officer is entirely irrelevant to this discussion.

squeaky, I take it you are also happy that women are paid less than men etc etc then?

Do you really not see it is all part of the same thing?

No Hully, it does not tell me that we need our consciousness raised, it tells me that I wish people could find something worthwhile to preach about rather than telling others how they should feel offended and imply that because they are not offended, they are somehow inferior to the ones that have an agenda.

I said it told me that, it obviously doesn't tell you or we wouldn't be having this conversation!

oh here we fucking go again... are women police officers paid less than their male conterparts? ask SharonGless that question perhaps. You know the police officer on this thread, from the same division as the murdered women, the one who does not feel demeaned or insulted by her superior...