To be angry that the Chief Constable chose the words..

[seeker]

"gentle" and "a chatterbox" respectively to describe the two women police officers who were murdered on duty yesterday.

Can you imagine those words ever being used to describe a man?

The ESSENTIAL POINT of the thread was that two professional officers were described in unprofessional terms that demeaned their professionalism.

In your opinion

Hully, your post is spot on.

Yes, in my opinion it is demeaning to refer to two police officers of 23 and 32 as "young girls"

It is also generally accepted in modern society that the cut off age for describing anyone as a girl is 18. And this is socially, let alone professionally.

It would of course be equally demeaning to refer to two police officers of 23 and 32 as "young boys" should they happen to be male.

Hully I would normally, in any other thread, probably post "What Hully said". But context is important, too. I normally hate "young girl" but I am a southern BigJessie and you, and all the people who have criticised those particular words do have a point. But I also note that while I would never normally consider a 32 year old young, I do if she or he has been murdered. I wouldn't say "girl" but I am southern. A police officer in Manchester already posted that they're referred to as lads and girls. I think that a senior police officer might see humanising the victims as more important to the career and safety of all other officers. Male and female..

But that debate is a different one from the main one on this thread.

Hully even if in the heat of the moment the relatives used words that you disagree with, you should have the common decency and respect not to criticise them for it.
Let them suffer in peace.

She is not hounding the bereaved relatives and ticking them off.

Sallying,

I am not criticising the relatives

I am criticising the senior police officers

Jessie,

Sorry, I really can't see calling a 32 yr old woman "young girl" as humanising...no matter how much I twist my brain in knots!

To seeker there are not many bigger things than this,that if she has children that grow up to be professionals,and get killed,that they are spoken of in a professional manner,even if she gave their bosses more personal words to say.
To most other people on this thread,the above sentence would come somewhere near the bottom of their priorites.

Just checking back in - its like a spot that I need to pick but shouldn't.

Again if we are dissecting what was said during this particular incident;-

1. The Chief Constable was directly quoting what colleagues had said in tribute to their fallen colleagues. At no other time that I have seen did he say anything inappropriate. If he did then I will stand to be corrected.

1. As previously stated Insp Ian Hanson was the one calling them young girls, who had just come from the station where the grieving colleagues were and had been comforting them. It is a phrase which is used here despite age. Even at my advanced age. In the debate of power of language then I would argue that as a culture thing then yes it probably should be challenged. However he was in shock as the rest of us still are.

1. There are male soldiers who have been referred to using the same words which some are finding unacceptable.

1. Can someone please start a debate regarding power of language in the media with another thread and let this one fade away

I can. Possibly because I'm a bit chavvy. There is a significant proportion of society who see police officers as uniforms. To you and lots of other people, it's patronising. Well, yeah. You already see the police as professionals with lives beyond getting in your way.

But that description of "young girls"? It will make some people think twice before they say, "good going", and they'll say "bastard".

That's important. I'll challenge "young girls" the rest of the time.

hully said:

it isn't the friends and families being criticised it is the professional superior of two professional officers.

Yes. He's the Chief Constable of one of the largest police forces in the country who should be aware of the things are reported. nit saw a TV interview questioning whether it was the right thing to send two young women in. It was always going to happen. It affects the way all police officers do their job because if we can't send women to do the job they have chosen, then the men have to take up the slack.

By choosing the words he did and allowing other senior officers to use terms such as 'slaughter of the innocents' Fahy can't answer that now.

TheBigJessie Absolutely.

But you can humanise people without patronising and demeaning them.

What about "brave woman"?

You really can't call a 32 yr old a "young girl" , it wasn't even "girl," as is sometimes used about a bunch of women, but "young girl."It made her sound like a 10 year old, fragile with a lollypop.

We have all had plenty of time to say what we think in this thread.

The only person here who has any real right to be listened to SharonGless.

I think her statement above should be definitive and draw a line under it.

Seeker I agree with you and Hully and the other people here saying that IT MATTERS

IT MATTERS how women in the police are referred to, viewed and treated - they where adult women not 'girls' and deserve better

"What about "brave woman"? "

In the very same statement he called them brave. And courageous.

gordy,
If you would read Sharon's note above you will see that in her police force it is normal to refer to women of all ages as girls.

I'm sorry, Hully. But in the lexicon I sort of grew up with, that pretty much screams legitimate target and cheering.

The OP asks if I was angry with the Chief Constable for using the words "gentle" and "chatterbox". No.

1. He was quoting from relatives/colleagues of the deceased.
2. He was, in any event, under phenomenal stress at the time. He would have had to be utterly crass for me to be angry with him under the circumstances.

So, I don't like this thread.

It is a colloquial term on many of the response teams.
I have accepted there is an argument about challenging it.
But not on this thread and not about this particular case - please.

gordy,
If you would read Sharon's note above you will see that in her police force it is normal to refer to women of all ages as girls.

And that needs changing

I'm sorry, Hully. But in the lexicon I sort of grew up with, that pretty much screams legitimate target and cheering.

So we have to infantilise women to stop them being targets whilst doing their job? Why not men?

That doesn't wash.

(I grew up in the roughest of rough sarf London btw)

I can see though that some people have had such a strong emotional reaction that they feel it inappropriate to discuss anything other than that emotional reaction.

The problem with not addressing it is that it leads to interviews and editorials and opinion pieces that question the right of women to act in the front line of any dangerous profession.

The two officers in question are not the only ones being demeaned by it, all women are.