To be angry that the Chief Constable chose the words..

[seeker]

"gentle" and "a chatterbox" respectively to describe the two women police officers who were murdered on duty yesterday.

Can you imagine those words ever being used to describe a man?

This thread was not started to criticise murdered women, nor grieving colleagues and family. It's not fair to interpret it as such.

Seeker has had an awful pasting, as have others - and for what? For wanting brave and professional women to be given their full due? For expressing feminist thinking - which is about supporting women's opportunities and opposing violence against women?

Now that it has been teased out what was actually said by Sir Peter Fahy. Seeker, are you still angry?

Me too, Lest and Sharon.
We argue on threads like this but to us it's just a news story, an awful news story but I know I haven't a clue what your'e going through.
Respect to you both.
RIP Fiona and Nicola.

. I guess it is easy to forget the stress that the persons making the statements were under.

And that apparent ease is why the words "robotic and emotionless" were used, presumably? I know that I myself have pointed out that it was all less than a day ago when that statement was made.

It just isn't fair to pick apart the words of people who've just found out that their friends are dead!

Did you honestly completely forget that finding out some of your friends are murdered might be a teensy wee bit stressful?

Is this amnesia contagious?

This thread certainly isn't about supporting women's opportunities or opposing violence against women. It's about getting the hump because some poor bloke in charge of a shell-shocked police force didn't use some feminist-approved terminologies in his statement.

And they weren't even HIS words, but don't let that stop you.

'Seeker has had an awful pasting, as have others - and for what? For wanting brave and professional women to be given their full due?'

They have been given their full due with warmth and obvious respect. Most people feel that. You are being extremely disrespectful to suggest that they haven't.

'For expressing feminist thinking - which is about supporting women's opportunities and opposing violence against women?'

There is a time and a place.

all?
I haven't said anything of the sort.
And I utterly reject the accusations of being robotic.
Apologies if you are not referring to me but I am agreeing with the gist of the thread so I can only assume that you are.

Why would this thread be heartbreaking?
It is not one of the many threads that are ripping apart murder victims within hours of their deaths.

And and I cannot speak for Seeker but I can assure you my feelings are all about respecting the women in involved and i do not have a feminist agenda.

Although it seems impossible for those disagreeing with Seeker to believe that.

We aren't talking about someone making a presentation for long service or even a eulogy - this is someone trying to use a brief statement to acknowledge a violent loss of life and acknowledge that impact to friends, family, colleagues, the press, the public and everyone else in the country.

And that's before we consider the terms that the OP found offence with were tenuous (at best).

And that's before we consider that the OP was flat out wrong about both the terms, how they were used and where they originated from.

Maybe, in a little while, once the rawness of it had died down, it might have made an interesting discussion. But after less than 24 hours to do a "disgusted of Tunbridge Wells"? And that people find this offensive comes as a shock?

If this thread had been started by anyone else it would have (quite accurately) been called as a troll.

Extraordinary level of personal abuse?

"Never had you down as such a delicate flower, seeker."

I'm not.

Well stop bleating about extraordinary levels of personal abuse when the worst thing anyone has said is radfem/robotic/orwellian!

You can't start such a contentious thread and NOT expect any kind of comeback, seeker. I think that any "abuse" has been very restrained, actually.

Beanie, it clearly isn't accurate to call 'troll'. And it would have been a daft thing to say anyway. A troll is not someone who holds an unpopular opinion.

Lovely post from Lest, and from Sharon too, and further proof that starting this thread was very badly timed, and should never have been written.

I can also fully understand why they would find it offensive too.

Seeker, you may have missed my question but are you still angry with the Chief Constable now that we have teased out what he actually said and what was direct quotes from friends and family?

No, a troll is someone who deliberately tries to upset/starts contentious threads with the aim of causing a ruck.

Bupcakes that's not the worst that has been said by either side and using words like "bleating" doesn't help.
Trolls- raoul moat and dale cregan tributes and rubbish like that are offensive, disgusting, filth. Those people are disgusting.
Seeker may have got the essential facts wrong or questioned something that was apparent to many other people but this thread is not disgusting.

Sigmund - please don't accuse me of being disrespectful. You know nothing about me. If you could wade through the thread and read my earlier posts you would know that I have no issue with what was said, given as it was in a personal context. Generally though the language that is used in public life IS important and should always be considered and if necessary debated.

There is never a time or place where the right of women to live in an equal and peaceful society can be ignored. Asserting that takes nothing away from the women killed yesterday.

The vitriol against feminist thinking on this thread is really ugly. What do those of you who use feminist as a term of abuse reckon you'll be gaining through that? How does it profit you to attack feminism? How will your life be improved? I'm genuinely curious.

Give me some examples of worse then please, Zombie, as I am struggling to find any. There has been no swearing, no gratuitous name-calling. Maybe just a bit of mild rudeness which is par for the course when people are arguing over topics such as this.

I can't believe that anyone would really get upset over being told they're coming across as robotic/being called a radfem when they hold views like this.

seeker,I'm being serious.
Have you sorted out what people will say when you die,because if you take such an issue with this,you need to tell people around you in RL what you want said when your time comes.

No-one has attacked feminism. A lot of us are pissed off that something like this has been made into a feminist issue. A lot of us that count ourselves as feminists feel that this type of posturing gives us a bad name.

I don't even think that this thread is in the true spirit of feminism. Had the CC been talking about the policewomen at a performance review and had used such familiar terms and it had hit the news, then absolutely that would be a feminist issue. But talking appraisingly about two dead women? That's not even up for feminist debate by dint of the fact that these poor women aren't here any more.

I think Troll may have been called if the poster wasn't as well known.

-The facts of the opening post are wrong.

-It is posted in AIBU.

Bupcakes - by saying that feminism has no place here I think you are attacking feminist thinking tbh. This thread is full of comments like that.

'A lot of us that count ourselves as feminists feel that this type of posturing gives us a bad name.'

Oh come on - an essential part of being a feminist is appreciating the context in which we live. A context which still permits the oppression of women and language is a big part of that. It's not posturing to be aware of that.

Could people stop saying they would like to 'call troll'. Disagreeing with someone doesn't mean they must be a troll.

All this bickering about the recent deaths of 2 police officers is so disrespectful.

Look, feminism isn't some sacred cow that can never be told that it is not welcome. Especially when it's dressed up as faux-concern and dictates how a person in a very bad situation must act to comply with a few feminists.

I think it IS posturing when these feminist ideals are foisted into a situation where the language will make no difference to the plight of the women to which the language refers. I cannot accept that this statement will damage women's equality.

No-one has called troll. A few have said if seeker wasn't a regular, she'd have probably been accused of being a troll.

No one said Seeker was a troll.

Beani mentioned the Troll word first and said "if this thread was started by anyone else...they would be called a troll".

I'm quite happy to attack 'feminist thinking' when someone can use the violent deaths of two police officers to make a 'feminist' point.
And yes, you have given yourselves a bad name IMO.
I have no interest in your type of feminism, I will carry on believing in women's rights, rape victims, and women that suffer DV.
But I will not look for things to be offended about, there's plenty out there in front of our eyes.