To be angry that the Chief Constable chose the words..

[seeker]

"gentle" and "a chatterbox" respectively to describe the two women police officers who were murdered on duty yesterday.

Can you imagine those words ever being used to describe a man?

I am angry that some excuses for human beings do not see police officers as 3-dimensional human beings.

"Yes, i'm angry about that too- whatever made you think I wasn't? That's why I want them spoken about with respect."

They weren't spoken about without respect, though.

Just because YOUR choice of words were not used, it doesn't make them wrong or disrespectful. Maybe if the women's families find them disrespectful, they can take it to the PCC, when their grief has subsided, rather than you getting upset on their behalf?

feminism and political correctness have nothing to do with it. Well, feminism has something to do with it, but wherenthe political correctness thing comesnfrom baffles me.

And I am sorry if people have been upset. But if they had actually read what I said, rather than what they think I said they would realise that I have said nothing disrespectful. And language is important. Calling these women "young girls" diminishes them and is disrespectful. Particularly considering one of them was 32.

Just to come back to this thread for a minute.
I for one have nothing against seeker, this is not a ganging up on my side, on many other threads I often agree with her.
I just think this one was at best, ill thought out, at worst just bad taste.
Loving words about two lost colleagues should not be twisted to make this a feminist issue.
If the families have a problem with it, let them speak out.

And I certainly wouldn't presume to speak for their families. I am a little surprised that you feel you can.

I am angry that people can say that heartfelt and loving tributes made by grieving colleages are disrespectful.

On the contrary, its the OP of this thread who is the one being disrespectful.

oh Seeker.. 32 IS young.. she probably happily described herself as someone who went on "girls nights out" until some point yesterday.. calling her a girl has not diminished her, it is not disrespectful either.

Perhaps if YOU calmed down and thought about what the CI was trying to convey when he spoke those words, you too might realise that nothing HE said was disrespectful.

Thinking about it, when my mum died the man leading the service said a bit about mum based on what he'd been told by us. Some of the words he used may have been words that only ever get applied to women, and so not PC, but they were heartfelt, respectful and most of all, they were relevant to my mum. I imagine the families of these two officers felt the same.

Was that aimed at me, seeker?

I'm certainly not speaking for anyone. I presume that their relatives will have heard that CI's statement and if they are offended, then they can take it up in due course with the relevant people.

TBH, I'm just a wee bit sick of everything being twisted into a feminist issue. It rankles at the best of times, even with me who is often the first to speak up against racist/sexist language, I just find that this has more than rankled. I find it incredibly crass and unnecessary.

The chief constable, and the other two officials already quoted on this thread are not vicars, friends, family or close every day colleagues. They are representatives of the police service a whole, and should choose their words with care.

Oh, and I am calm, and have been throughout- apart from one intemperate post. Which is more than can be said for the mindless baying mob!

Hearing Raoul Moat & Facebook groups mentioned reminds me... i read that there's now a Facebook group supporting the killer :(

THAT is something to be angry about!!

I'm speechless at this tbh.

This is the second thread I've come across on MN in the last 24hrs where some people think that the murders come second place to their 'complaints' about the police.

Seriously - do you not think you could have waited just a wee while more before posting? The simple fact that you have posted this nit-picking less than 24hrs after they were murdered shows quite clearly what you regard as important; and it's not the murders.

My dh serves - has done for 22 years; he's been involved in some really terrible things, and should the worst happen, I wouldn't give a flying fuck what words his CC used to honour him.

Vile.

"Calling these women "young girls" diminishes them and is disrespectful."

I think the use of that phrase depends entirely on context. I agree that usually it is disrespectful as it is a way of saying "too young". So in a work situation it is derogatory. But when talking about their deaths? It is saying they were too young to die. Which isn't disrespectful at all.

TBH, I'm just a wee bit sick of everything being twisted into a feminist issue. It rankles at the best of times, even with me who is often the first to speak up against racist/sexist language, I just find that this has more than rankled. I find it incredibly crass and unnecessary.

Who says they haven't chosen their words with care?

What's your opinion on my previous post?
"Given that so many people have an awful view of the police, focussing on the softer more childlike qualities is actually quite a good idea. Let's face it if idiots like Raoul Moat (who shot civilians as well as police) got a fanclub for his actions, there are definitely people who would support the murder of police officers, using language that reminds people these were daughters might make some of those idiots think twice."

Ah, back to the usual.. because the vast majority of us think you are wrong, we are a mindless baying mob.

And some people wonder why the feminist section regulars get such short shrift on MN.

Which is more than can be said for the mindless baying mob!

Resorting to petty insults now? Oh dear...

"This is the second thread I've come across on MN in the last 24hrs where some people think that the murders come second place to their 'complaints' about the police."

But I don't think that. Which you would know if you actually read the thread.

Mindless baying mob?

Ah, you mean those who have the temerity to disagree with your obvious agenda!

I also think the words were rather ill chosen to be honest.

Indeed, Empusa.

And I'm tired of "professional women" They were daughters/friends/sisters BEFORE policewomen and should be spoken of as such, IMO.

Re: the 'killer for OBE' Facebook group - i'm sick of various offensive Facebook groups on various topics that i've heard of recently... best ignored i suppose because they want people to react angrily; but it's difficult not to be angry!

(Sorry that's a whole new thread really).

I did put an exclamation mark after mindless baying mob!

Disagreeing is fine. Some of the abuse hurled at me earlier in the thread isn't. But you're right, I probably shouldn't have said that. I take it back.

"mindless"
just cos people disagree with you!!