To be angry that the Chief Constable chose the words..

[seeker]

"gentle" and "a chatterbox" respectively to describe the two women police officers who were murdered on duty yesterday.

Can you imagine those words ever being used to describe a man?

binky I know how to quote people. It's an important part of my job. Therefore I think carefully about the quotes I choose.

cake Yes, he was speaking on behalf of the force. Therefore he should have chosen a better word than 'chatterbox' even if that's the way one of the women might have described herself. As I said, there must have been lots of ways to describe her that were more moving and dignified.

I feel a bit ashamed to admit this, but his description made me cry. Maybe, just maybe, it will have the same effect on some of the people who love to despise the police.

Maybe.

"As I said, there must have been lots of ways to describe her that were more moving and dignified"

And I am sure when there is a funeral for them, there will be, as well as other personal tributes too.

My friends husband worked with both of these woman, and my friend knew them, so I particulary find this thread and the reason it was started to be utterly inappropriate, not the comments made by the CI.

The tributes he read from their colleagues could possibly have been the only ones available to him at that time, they could have been the only ones that he felt reflected how the majority of their colleagues felt about the two officers.

I agree with you Squeaky.

Two people have been killed in cold blood in their line of duty, and someone focuses their anger on the words used to describe them!

seeker - You may well have the best intentions of striving for female equality with your criticism of the Chief Constable's words. However, the way in which we chose to challenge is very valid and, rightly or wrongly, will affect people's perceptions of women who campaign for equal rights.

From your original post, you are giving the impression that feminism takes priority over everything, even the horrific killing of two police officers in the line of duty. That is not a productive way to encourage other people to be supportive of the female equality cause. I would go so far as to say that you are actually alienating them, despite what they believe.

For the record, I did not find his words offensive and I doubt the families of the victims did either. He spoke very movingly and was obviously deeply shocked.

A tragic and brutal way for those two women to die.

How vile to think that when speaking about deceased colleagues in the future (in a FOND way!) that CIs and the like might have to consult some handbook to make sure their words aren't taken in offence. What a way to kill heartfelt speech, eh?

Bups I agree.

I can think of a lot of ways of talking about people that isn't respectful, but those comments don't fit in there.

"From your original post, you are giving the impression that feminism takes priority over everything, even the horrific killing of two police officers in the line of duty"

You obviously haven't read a word I've said, if you can say that.

I'm with you Seeker.

The family of the younger officer has released a personal statement in which they refer to her as a girl.

I think the speech was trying to be heartfelt and personal to convey something of their personality to the public and the words used reflected this. I did very consciously register the words used, but didn't feel they were demeaning under the circumstances and in that context.

I also think the term girl has been used only affectionately and by way of emphasising the young ages of these officers. Not in a way that belittled their position or status - I felt he did refer to their careers and their professionalism - but to reiterate the tragedy of loss of lives at these young ages.

While reeling from this horrendous crime, I would rather hear something which comes over as an affectionate and heartfelt tribute even if not word perfect, than a stilted speech where it's obvious it has been professionally worded to be pc. I was stunned and moved watching the initial news report and speeches and in this situation, didn't feel the need to read anything more into what was said.

I just don't think it's right to pick these words apart.

seeker - Timing and mode of delivery is important. I think you made a grave error of judgement in this case.

Seeker, you have made me really angry. I'm a female police officer and have no problem with what he said. In fact, I was impressed with his speech. He quite clearly wanted the public to see them as human not just a uniform, so he made sure that he knew something about the people they were. He would have got those descriptions from people who loved them and colleagues who will be devastated. It is totally in poor taste for you to criticise their wording. I doubt you have any idea what the Police Service is feeling today and your post is insensitive and unpleasant.

If I have said anything which detracted from the tragedy, or criticised the women or their families then yes, I would have made an error of judgement. But I didn't.

I criticised the way some public figures carried out part of their duties. Because I think the way they did it was disrespectful to two women murdered in ther course of their work.

Even if I was one of those sort of people who looks for offence and insults in every word that is spoken about women just in case I can put it towards "the cause", I would have thought twice before starting this thread. I would have realised that it was an exceptionally emotional moment and that to pull apart the words, and disregard the sentiment would be insensitive.

Well, I am angry that a 32 year old professional woman has been described as a "young girl".

I don't agree with you seeker, just going from your OP, I don't find the words 'gentle' or 'chatterbox' offensive at all when describing someone.

I don't think you deserve all the comments you've received, but I can understand some of the 'facepalm' comments... I think you've picked a bad example.

I am more angry that a 32yo girl, woman, chatterbox, whatever you want to call her, is DEAD. Dont you get that bit Seeker?

YABU.

I think they were words spoken from the heart - he had obviously asked their colleagues what the policewomen were like; his description gives personality & individuality to the women who were murdered.

Anyway - i've heard men being described as 'gentle' or 'talkative' - it's normal!

The most terrible thing for me is that the killer actually set up those murders - he knew the officers were unarmed.

Then he just handed himself in.

He should have handed himself in instead of murdering 2 people - but he obviously in his twisted way thought that as he was going down for murder anyway; then he'd take 2 police officers with him to give him some kind of 'reputation'.

I would feel just as sickened by this crime if the officers had been men.

Yes, i'm angry about that too- whatever made you think I wasn't? That's why I want them spoken about with respect.

"He quite clearly wanted the public to see them as human not just a uniform, so he made sure that he knew something about the people they were"

Quite. Especially given that so many people have an awful view of the police, focussing on the softer more childlike qualities is actually quite a good idea. Let's face it if idiots like Raoul Moat (who shot civilians as well as police) got a fanclub for his actions, there are definitely people who would support the murder of police officers, using language that reminds people these were daughters might make some of those idiots think twice.

They havent been spoken about in anything but respect. Just because you are a feminist, and want to be politically correct, it doesnt mean that you are right in this instance.