Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be angry that the Chief Constable chose the words..

999 replies

seeker · 19/09/2012 09:20

"gentle" and "a chatterbox" respectively to describe the two women police officers who were murdered on duty yesterday.

Can you imagine those words ever being used to describe a man?

OP posts:
imnotmymum · 19/09/2012 12:52

Somehow I find your name disrespectful. Sorry to go off on a tangent but I am sorry I do.

squeakytoy · 19/09/2012 12:52

"This thread isn't about feminism."

yes, we believe you... Hmm

"It's about treating people with respect"

Odd then that it is only a certain group who are seeing this as a lack of respect.. oh that would be the feminists then...

Two innocent people have died due to an evil piece of shit that does not deserve to draw breath. I am sure the bereaved are really concerned about their daughter/wife/sister being described as a girl, or a chatterbox. To me, they both sounded like decent much loved and respected people, and that is the important thing, not the semantics of feminist claptrap.

Northernlurkerisbackatwork · 19/09/2012 12:54

Language is important. The words we use reflect our views and shape those of others. It's not disrespectful to point that out. I am a feminist and one of the things feminism has done for me is to show me how what seems 'little' is so very significant. Words shape our world and it's not a woman friendly world. These police officers will not have been the only women yesterday to die at the hands of violent men. Feminists should not be attacked for pointing that out. If you tolerate language which demeans women, you also tolerate everything else that comes with that. The inequality, the violence, the harm.

That said, in this case, understandably, the Chief Constable wanted to reflect the words of those who knew these women best. In a purely professional sense I agree he could have used more appropriate language but he was speaking as part of a grieving body. He used very personal language because that is how this loss is felt. I wouldn't judge a grieving father for descibing his child as a chatterbox and so I don't judge badly in this case BUT it's a fine line and it's not wrong to look at what's said and done.

WorraLiberty · 19/09/2012 12:55

Ok this post is to anyone with speakers on their PC/Phone....

This is a link to the speech made by the Chief Constable. Cany anyone please tell me if they can hear him referring to either Police Officer as a 'young girl'? Confused

It's a genuine question because I've listened 3 times due to the buffering and yet he simply doesn't appear to have said it at all Confused

Link here

cakeismysaviour · 19/09/2012 12:56

I doubt that the chief constable chose the words.

It is unlikely that he knew them well, if at all.

He would have asked those who worked closely with her and possibly the families too, to get a better idea of their personalities.

Has it occured to you that maybe they were gentle and they were chatterboxes. They are not dirty words you know.

They have also been descibed as being very good at their jobs, but I am sure that their close collegues wanted to also pay tributes to them on a personal level.

EatsBrainsAndLeaves · 19/09/2012 12:57

BBC news referred to two young girls. Not sure who said it though.

Original poster
seeker · 19/09/2012 12:58

"Somehow I find your name disrespectful. Sorry to go off on a tangent but I am sorry I do."

Well, that post was going to be last word- but I won't be able to sleep for wondering if I don't find out what you mean by that!!!!!!!!!!

OP posts:
LadyDianaSpencer · 19/09/2012 12:58

He said it on the news last night.

Original poster
seeker · 19/09/2012 13:01

The Chief constable didn't say young girls. At least two other people did. They have been named on this thread.

OP posts:
kim147 · 19/09/2012 13:01

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Birdsgottafly · 19/09/2012 13:02

I can't believe that people really support the idea that two full grown professional women being called 'young girls' isn't demeaning

The Cheif Constable didn't say that, that was in the more personal tributes.

One of the officers was 23, that is young to die and to some, she is a young girl.

The murder is being harboured, this language is needed, so someone has second thoughts about taking part in the cover up.

threeOrangesocksmorgan · 19/09/2012 13:02

oh ffs.
he used phrases that made the PC'S real. imo it showed that they were 2 warm women who will be very much missed by all that knew them.
using these genuine comments to score points is just sick.

imnotmymum · 19/09/2012 13:03

Not your name seeker but LadyDianaSpencer.
I have just watched thelink thanks Worra and I thought it was a lively touch having comments from fellow colleagues who saw them as friends and an insight into their personalities in this difficult job. He did not refer to them as young girls at all but as brave colleagues who exemplified British policing.

Original poster
seeker · 19/09/2012 13:03

Ah, sorry, misunderstanding. I thought somehow seeker was offending someone. Must guard against solipsism.

OP posts:
Proudnscary · 19/09/2012 13:04

I'm quite shocked at the vitriol thrown at Seeker.

I've never found her malcious or ranty - there seems to be many posters bringing a lot of MN baggage on to this thread.

However, I can understand those who are offended by Seeker's insensitive timing and editing.

Emotions are quite rightly running high and I agree the concentration should be on the terrible loss of these women.

I do agree with Seeker that it is inappropriate for two professional, adult police officers to be reffered to as young girls (if reports are correct) but on balance I think it is absolutely legitmate to talk about their personalities in whatever terms colleagues used.

Proudnscary · 19/09/2012 13:05

malicious

Birdsgottafly · 19/09/2012 13:06

Seeker you could at least acknowledge that you have got it wrong, over who said what and where the quotes came from.

Also why it is important that the public 'see' the people behind the uniform.

cakeismysaviour · 19/09/2012 13:06

threeOrangesocksmorgan - Agreed!

It takes a certain type of person to listen to a statement about two tragically killed people, with warm and loving tributes from their collegues and turn that into something to be 'angry' about.

WorraLiberty · 19/09/2012 13:06

Right so, this thread is a total pile of bollocks in the sense that the Chief Constable hasn't described the women himself at all.

He's quoted their colleagues who clearly loved and respected them.

It might have been a good idea if the OP had done at least a tad of research before engaging her fingers...

BupcakesandCunting · 19/09/2012 13:07

FGS seeker Hmm

cakeismysaviour · 19/09/2012 13:08

Proudnscary - It isn't about who posted this. Its about what she posted.

LadyDianaSpencer · 19/09/2012 13:09

"What we've got are two young girls who went out this morning and they've got an absolute right to come home tonight to their loved ones," said the chairman of the Greater Manchester Police Federation, Ian Hanson.

Proudnscary · 19/09/2012 13:13

For you maybe Cake, but many posters have attacked Seeker and her previous posts and opinions. I can see why people are upset and offended, but I don't find Seeker in general an offensive poster as some have said.

That's all I wanted to say.

limitedperiodonly · 19/09/2012 13:14

It wasn't the Chief Constable who referred to them as 'young girls'. It was Insp Ian Hanson, spokesman for the GMP Federation, which is like a trade union for officers.

Therefore he does have a responsibility to pick his words carefully because it's his job to make sure all officers are treated equally. It's also his job to see all officers equally. I think he didn't do that and if I were a female police officer I'd be annoyed with him.

It was clear that the Chief Constable was quoting the women's friends which makes his words completely justifiable.

No one wishes any malice towards the friends and families or disrespect to two women doing a very hard job.

But lots of people have grasped the point that language is important and that sometimes using 'nice' words about people doesn't make their day-to-day life any easier.

WorraLiberty · 19/09/2012 13:14

Ahh yes I see that now LadyDiana, he referred to them as young girls - as did Sue Hill, former Met Detective Cheif Superintendent.

So the OP's rant really is just about the deceased women's colleagues using the description 'gentle' and 'chatterbox'.

The mind boggles.