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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to think that "sexual harassment" is a bit strong to describe this event?

614 replies

BartiiMus · 14/09/2012 10:22

At a training session with work. 3 days, 2 nights on-site.

Around midnight (not long after the people concerned have left the bar), man A rings woman B and asks for a code to connect to the internet (we use password tokens and he'd forgotten his).

Woman says fine, come to my room. Man goes to room, then confesses he didn't come for that at all and tries to kiss her. She refuses. Man is confused saying he thought they had a "connection" earlier in the evening but she denies it. He leaves the room.

A few days later woman B tells my colleague about it. She was half-laughing about it and said she wasn't going to report it.

Last night at a party my colleague told us that there'd been "sexual harassment" during the training this summer but refused to say who had been involved. After a bit of coaxing and lots of clues from him we worked out who the man had been, and our colleague confirmed it.

I know him, I've worked with him before and he's a nice bloke. I'm not saying he didn't do this but he tried it on, was refused and left. Is that really "sexual harassment"?

To be honest, I'm a bit pissed off with the gossip colleague who told us all because it's a bit of a non-event (man tries to pull woman, woman refuses, man leaves) but he's usually highly emotive language like "sexual harassment" to describe it. She's not even reporting it. The man isn't her boss or anything and they don't work together.

I know I probably don't have all the story but I do know the gossip well and he does love to exagerate and I don't think it's very fair to man A to have people slinging mud at him like this.

So, deep breath AIBU?

OP posts:
handbagCrab · 15/09/2012 12:58

sallying I think you're saying he wanted to use the Internet and try it on. I'm saying I don't think he cared about the Internet one way or another and just wanted to try it on.

In your version he just wanted to use the Internet, but she invited him down to her room, which then gave him the idea that he could try it on! It had never occurred to him before he was in her room, and actually it was her fault for giving mixed messages hidden carefully behind responding to a work related Internet request that she didn't initiate. Hmmmm.

atacareercrossroads · 15/09/2012 13:06

No, not sexual harrasment by any stretch of the imagination. Just someone hoping for a bit of lovin who got knocked back. Nothing more. Poor bugger being accused of being a sex pest etc, makes me worry for my boys when they are older this sort of exaggeration :(

DowagersHump · 15/09/2012 13:11

Actually I find it the world a lot scarier for men that so many of you are prepared to think that most men would make up a pretext to get into a female colleague's bedroom and that if she invites him in, it's her fault for being so naive.

I'd like to think that most men aren't that predatory.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 15/09/2012 13:14

The world is scarier for men?

I'm not sure how to respond politely to that.

Do you know that DV is a leading cause of death during pregnancy in some places? And have you ever heard of, oh, I dunno, Saudi Arabia's attitude to women? Or wondered why there aren't so many little girl babies in China and India as there should be?

But no: the world is scarier for men because the poor things are being told not to indulge in a little sexual harrassment, of course. Hmm

squeakytoy · 15/09/2012 13:16

LRD, we are not talking about current affairs in the world, we all know that there are major problems with society in the places you mention, we are talking about day to day relationships and life...

FastidiaBlueberry · 15/09/2012 13:16

"If this situation had been the other way around, and the man had invited a woman to his room, she had tried to kiss him, he turned her down, and she left, I wonder how different the reactions on here would have been from those screeching that it was sexual harassment. "

Ah yes, let's all pretend that men are as much at risk of being raped by their female colleagues as women are of being raped by their male colleagues. And then blamed for leading the women on so they must have asked for it.

It's simply marvellous for you that you've never been oppressed in your life Squeakytoy. That's not something the 25% of women who are sexually assaulted, up to and including rape in our wonderfully equal Western society, share with you. (Or the women who are paid 22% less for doing the same job as a man just because they are female, or the thousands of women still being sacked for being pregnant, but obviously they're just imagining their oppression and that's another thread. It's never happened to you so it doesn't happen, it's a figment of hairy legged female imagination.)

To pretend that being alone in a hotel room with someone is somehow safer than being in a chalet, is just bizarre. Plenty of women have been raped in hotel rooms.

I expect they asked for it though, or are just whingey or naieve and women who may feel a bit nervous or uncomfortable about a male colleague in their hotel room after midnight are just manhaters.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 15/09/2012 13:18

squeaky, she said 'the world'. I assume she meant 'the world'. If she did not, she shouldn't generalize so casually about something so appallingly offensive.

IMHO.

Btw, it's not like this is all happening in small foreign countries we can pretend don't matter. Where do you imagine the stat about pregnancy and DV comes from?

squeakytoy · 15/09/2012 13:23

this woman was not raped, or sexually assaulted, so why are all the feminists, and yes it is just the feminists as usual, bring rape into this.. rape did not happen, nor was there any domestic violence involved..

Can I ask the feminists, is there any particular reason why every thread that you pile onto, you have to raise the subject of rape?

seeker · 15/09/2012 13:23

I have a boy. I hope that when he's older he'll be grown up enought to talk to women properly and not play silly games. If he fancies a woman I hope he'll tell her, or at least use a pretext that cannot be misunderstood -"would you like a coffee?" for example.

And whoever said it's scarier for men- well words fail
Me!

atacareercrossroads · 15/09/2012 13:24

In this case it is absolutely terrifying to be a man. He goes for a cheeky snog, gets rejected, leaves it and is still accused of harrasment?! Bloody hell fire, must remember to tell my boys to just not bother trying to kiss anyone unless they can get video evidence of the woman consenting to back them up just incase they are accused of being sex pests.

Ffs I am glad im not a bloke.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 15/09/2012 13:26

Yes, god forbid feminists dare to discuss anything to do with women, or sexual assault.

You do get that there might actually be links between one kind of sexual behaviour and another, right, squeaky?

BoneyBackJefferson · 15/09/2012 13:28

seeker

"or at least use a pretext that cannot be misunderstood -"would you like a coffee?" for example."

your example of "would you like a coffee" could also be misconstrude, and IMO often is.

DowagersHump · 15/09/2012 13:29

LRD - of course the world isn't scary for men! :o I was replying to atacareercrossroads' post where she said:

"Poor bugger being accused of being a sex pest etc, makes me worry for my boys when they are older this sort of exaggeration"

There are a lot of posters on here who've accused the woman of being naive, that those of us who think that this most definitely is sexual harassment are clearly naive about men and their intentions. I find that actually quite a scary prospect for both men and women - that so many women think it's the woman's fault for inviting him to her room because men just can't help themselves. I was trying to turn that tiresome meme that feminists hate men on their head and failing badly!

mellen · 15/09/2012 13:31

If he fancies a woman I hope he'll tell her, or at least use a pretext that cannot be misunderstood -"would you like a coffee?" for example.

How is asking for a coffee something that cannot be misunderstood if 'come to my hotel room after the work night out to get information I could have given you over the phone' can be?

LRDtheFeministDragon · 15/09/2012 13:31

Oh, thank god. Sorry dowagers.

Blush
DowagersHump · 15/09/2012 13:31

atacareercrossroads - if my son grows up thinking that tricking his way into a colleague's hotel room on a pretext so that he can make a move on her is acceptable behaviour, I would be horribly ashamed and feel that I'd utterly failed as a parent

atacareercrossroads · 15/09/2012 13:32

Erm, doesn't "would you like a coffee" mean "would you like a hot caffeine based beverage" ? Confused

BoneyBackJefferson · 15/09/2012 13:34

atacareercrossroads

Aparently not.

mellen · 15/09/2012 13:34

Dowagers

It isnt her fault for inviting him to the room, she can do what she wants and he clearly has no right to expect any particular outcome. But I think that it is perfectly predicable in that situation that he might think he had a chance of something.

BoneyBackJefferson · 15/09/2012 13:36

As we appear to be making assumptions about this.

With the information that we have (and it has been said before) the woman in question could have put a stop to this by giving the man the code over the phone.

atacareercrossroads · 15/09/2012 13:45

FWIW I think the woman should be allowed to invite the guy up to her room to get the code. Why ever not? Inviting a man to a hotel room doesnt automatically mean hes going to get lucky.

What I dont like is this poor git being accused of all sorts because he asked for a code that SHE COULD HAVE GIVEN HIM ON THE PHONE, he might have took that for a "would you like a coffee" type thing (that apparantly doesnt mean "would you like a drink" in some world somewhere Confused) so he thought she might have also wanted a bit of a frisson and got the total wrong end of the stick.

He tried his luck, she knocked him back, he left. No harm done whatsoever, except that people at this blokes work may also think he is some sort of predator.

seeker · 15/09/2012 13:48

Would you like a coffee" means I like you and would like to spend some time with you. "Do you have the code for the Internet ?" means- well, do you have the code for the Internet!

And "cheeky snog" Jesus wept- we are talking about grown ups here aren't we?

DowagersHump · 15/09/2012 14:00

I don't know if you've ever used a SecureID token mellen but, although in theory it's possible to give the code out over the phone, in practice, it would be an utter faff and it would be much easier to just give someone the token.

And this woman had no reason to suspect that this man's request wasn't genuine. Being as, you know, he was a trusted colleague and all

atacareercrossroads · 15/09/2012 14:00

No, would you like a coffee means would you like a coffee

Ringing someone up for the code means can you tell me the code over the phone

Come up to my room and get it means come to my room and get the code

Someone trying to kiss someone and being refused means bugger off I dont want to kiss you

Man leaving hotel room after being knocked back means he accepts the rejection

Although, Im curious now. If she had said "yea come and get the code and we'll have a coffee" (because she is thirsty and wouldnt mind a bit of company) Im guesing he wouldnt be as villified as he has been. Interesting....and quite sad and dangerous thinking IMO.

"And "cheeky snog" Jesus wept- we are talking about grown ups here aren't we? " You'd think so wouldnt you Grin

thebeesnees79 · 15/09/2012 14:08

I always thought harassment was when someone repeatedly asked etc. if someone tries it on and is knocked back and accepts it how is that harassment?
no if he would have tried another time again after being knocked back once then yes its sexual harassment.

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