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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

to think that "sexual harassment" is a bit strong to describe this event?

614 replies

BartiiMus · 14/09/2012 10:22

At a training session with work. 3 days, 2 nights on-site.

Around midnight (not long after the people concerned have left the bar), man A rings woman B and asks for a code to connect to the internet (we use password tokens and he'd forgotten his).

Woman says fine, come to my room. Man goes to room, then confesses he didn't come for that at all and tries to kiss her. She refuses. Man is confused saying he thought they had a "connection" earlier in the evening but she denies it. He leaves the room.

A few days later woman B tells my colleague about it. She was half-laughing about it and said she wasn't going to report it.

Last night at a party my colleague told us that there'd been "sexual harassment" during the training this summer but refused to say who had been involved. After a bit of coaxing and lots of clues from him we worked out who the man had been, and our colleague confirmed it.

I know him, I've worked with him before and he's a nice bloke. I'm not saying he didn't do this but he tried it on, was refused and left. Is that really "sexual harassment"?

To be honest, I'm a bit pissed off with the gossip colleague who told us all because it's a bit of a non-event (man tries to pull woman, woman refuses, man leaves) but he's usually highly emotive language like "sexual harassment" to describe it. She's not even reporting it. The man isn't her boss or anything and they don't work together.

I know I probably don't have all the story but I do know the gossip well and he does love to exagerate and I don't think it's very fair to man A to have people slinging mud at him like this.

So, deep breath AIBU?

OP posts:
seeker · 15/09/2012 07:32

So why didn't he ring and say "Do you fancy a coffee?" If there was "a connection" she would have said "yes- come on up" Surely?

seeker · 15/09/2012 07:34

Wonder whwt people would be saying if this story was about two men?

mellen · 15/09/2012 07:53

The man in this situation was not asking to go to the hotel room, he was asking for a code which could have been given over the phone.

After a night of drinking and chat he possibly did think then that an unnecessary invitation to her hotel room meant more than it did.

DowagersHump · 15/09/2012 07:59

Christ, this thread is depressing.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch · 15/09/2012 10:31

Mellen although the woman could have given the code over the phone (and it may be one of those long mixes of letters and numbers that is hard to dictate without a mistake) the OP stated that the man confessed the password thing was an excuse to get to her room.

mellen · 15/09/2012 11:01

Its hardly unusual for men to use requests for information as a pretext for making a phone call to a woman is it. If I was at a boozy business event at a hotel and was phoned after with a request for non-essential information I would have a high level of suspicion that that was what was going on. No wonder the bloke thought he was in with a chance when she invited him to the room to give information that could have been conveyed over the phone.

Is it so unusual for there to be a degree of unspokenness and reading between the lines in communication?

Sallyingforth · 15/09/2012 11:08

"to think that "sexual harassment" is a bit strong to describe this event?"
YES.

Guy tries it on. Told to go away. Goes away. End of story.

MmmPercyPigs · 15/09/2012 11:26

Hang on.....man phones woman with ploy to get into her room (or at the very least ploy to see if she will invite him in), woman invites man in, man tries to kiss woman, woman says no, man leaves.

Man is guilty of sexual harassment? Bloody Hell - No man EVER has a chance does he?

It makes me more than a little angry that this bloke (who lets face it - IF the story happened as the OP suggests - just got signals a little wrong then left) is now forever to be guilty of something WAY more serious. So - what would you do with him? What should his punishment be? All those who think it is?

Off to have serious words with my 'sexual harasser' DH - can you believe he tried to kiss me on the night I met him? We were in a work context and everything.

AWimbaWay · 15/09/2012 11:26

He didn't even kiss her, he tried to but as soon as she said no he backed off and left.

If he had continued to try it on, if he had refused to leave, if he had hassled her about the event later on then yes that would be harassment, but he didn't, the moment he knew she wasn't interested he stopped.

flow4 · 15/09/2012 11:27

I use a chip 'n' PIN token to access work emails too... You can't use a code from someone else... The woman would have had to let the man access the internet from her own laptop using her log-in and code, if he'd forgotten his. That's why it wouldn't work over the phone.

I agree it's sexual harassment because of the work context. If they'd been in a bar, it might just have been considered "trying it on", and he accepted a "no"... Which is presumably why the woman chose not to make a complaint.

OP, YABU to get involved here at all; unless you are really the man, trying to understand why people were shocked by your bad behaviour. Hmm

mellen · 15/09/2012 11:34

The OP has said that the information could have been given over the phone.

squeakytoy · 15/09/2012 11:34

If this situation had been the other way around, and the man had invited a woman to his room, she had tried to kiss him, he turned her down, and she left, I wonder how different the reactions on here would have been from those screeching that it was sexual harassment. Hmm

Sallyingforth · 15/09/2012 11:37

flow4
How you get access is nothing to do with this case FFS.

The OP said "and asks for a code to connect to the internet "

edam · 15/09/2012 11:47

squeaky - that's because men haven't been oppressed by women for centuries. The power balance is the other way round. Even today, men still earn far more than women, men hold almost all the powerful positions in the country (something like 19/23 cabinet minister roles, for e.g., almost the entire judiciary, almost all company executive directorships - even down at far lower levels like councillors, men still dominate).

squeakytoy · 15/09/2012 11:50

oh for heavens sakes.. it is 2012 now.. yes there are some regions of the world where women, and men too are oppressed by others, but not in the western world..

I have never felt oppressed in my life..

flow4 · 15/09/2012 11:55

Sallyingforth, there are a lot of people questioning why the woman would 'invite' the man to her room, and saying she could have given him a code over the phone... I am saying why I think that would not have worked.

I'm pretty sure all token systems work the same... And OP said yesterday "Password token : you have a username and the token randomly gives you a password (different each time). Allows you to connect to your email. (but only with another 2 passwords so you can only acces your own email IYSWIM)"

handbagCrab · 15/09/2012 11:59

If a man is willing to make up some bullshit story about Internet connections to talk to his colleague I am of the opinion that he would make up some bullshit story why he needs to come to her room as well. He was obviously plausible and did it on purpose to try it on.

A nice guy who was chancing his arm might ask her for coffee or another drink or any one of the myriad of socially acceptable ways of finding out if someone is interested.

Men like this are horrible bastards. Just because some women think its ok doesn't mean it is. Have higher standards for the men you acquaint yourselves with!

mellen · 15/09/2012 12:02

Flow

The OP said: BartiiMus Fri 14-Sep-12 10:40:36

And yes she could have read the code out over the phone.

Do you think she doesnt understand the procedure for her own works internet access?

squeakytoy · 15/09/2012 12:02

"Just because some women think its ok doesn't mean it is."

And just because the feminists think it isnt ok, does not mean that it is harassment either.

Does that man hating chip on your shoulder not get heavy?

edam · 15/09/2012 12:07

ah, I see, in your world objecting to a man doing whatever he fancies is 'man-hating'? Oddly enough some of my favourite people are male - my husband and son, for instance. It's deeply insulting to the vast majority of decent men to tar them with the same brush as sexual aggressors.

squeakytoy · 15/09/2012 12:12

I just find it sad that a bloke who misread a signal (and none of us know what those signals were either), is being called a horrible bastard. A horrible bastard would be one who went knocking uninvited, put pressure on a woman knowing she wasnt interested, and then went around calling her a prick tease. As none of that happened, and he simply apologised and left, hardly makes him a "horrible bastard" does it. He cant possibly have known that she would say "oh come to my room" when he rang asking for a code that was given over the phone. He quite reasonably thought that might have been a signal from her that she was interested.

MySpanielHell · 15/09/2012 12:13

This is from the EOC:

'The complainant?s perception has to be given particular regard. This means that in the vast majority of circumstances the complainant?s view that it was offensive to them should be accepted. However, it may not be sexual harassment if no reasonable person, with the same perceptions and sexual attitudes as the complainant, would regard the conduct as capable of damaging the complainant?s dignity or creating an offensive environment for them.'

So if this happened to me, and I considered it to be sexual harassment, then there are plenty of people (on this thread for a start) with the same sexual attitudes as me who would agree. In that case, my employers would have to treat it as a sexual harassment case.

Also:

'What one, or even a majority, might see as harmless fun and banter, even as a compliment, another may find unacceptable. They may consider the complainant to be oversensitive, prudish, or to have elicited the harassment through their appearance or behaviour. But behaviour can amount to
sexual harassment even if the person doing it or those who witness it do not view it that way.'

Which pretty much sums up why most of the arguments as to why it isn't sexual harassment on this thread, and considers them to be irrelevant.

The only relevant factor here is that the woman in question does not want to make a complaint, and this is the end of the matter, surely? If she had, then it would have to be dealt with as sexual harassment and all that would have happened to the man in question would be that a manager would tell him not to repeat the behaviour and to abide by his contract/company policy.

mellen · 15/09/2012 12:14

I dont think it is fair to describe the man in the OP as being a 'sexual aggressor'. He tried it on, got knocked back and went away.

Sallyingforth · 15/09/2012 12:20

Good grief, the exaggeration going on in this thread!

This guy, invited into a woman's room, tried for a kiss and immediately withdrew when it was refused.

and now he is one of those
sexual aggressors
who is
doing whatever he fancies

Amazing, absolutely amazing.

handbagCrab · 15/09/2012 12:20

If this man had been honest about his intentions he would have got rebuffed but not put himself in a situation where he can be disciplined for inappropriate sexual conduct. If he had been honest then this woman would not have had this happen to her and wouldn't be feeling however she would be feeling. In my apparently, man hating, scenario, the worst that can happen is the bloke is embarrassed that he got rebuffed.

I don't hate men, I hate men who do horrible stuff to women (and other men) under the pretence of a misunderstanding. They know exactly what they are doing in my experience and prentending they don't know any better is doing no one any favours.

Wouldn't you like to go on a night out squeaky where you don't have to push someone off you for trying to kiss you or stop them grabbing your arse or whatever and instead bein surrounded by men who respect you and your bodily autonomy and find out first if that's what you want before lunging in?