To object to DH wanting me to use my church attendance to get dd1 into school

[pouffepants]

Dd1 is due to go to high school next year. She is a mouse and has mild sn, so we are obv very nervous of this.

Amongst our choices is a c of e school, which you have to attend church to get in. I do attend church, always have and would describe myself as a christian. The school in question has the best results in the area, and is considered the best school by most. I am dubious about this, and think that they probably only achieve so well because they avoid the difficult families by backdoor elitism, which I have a problem with.

Dh agrees with this theory, but thinks I should bite the bullet and use my church attendance to get her in. I am very unhappy about using my religion in this way, in fact I'm unhappy with religious schools at all, but if a school is run by christians then it should run on a christian philosophy of caring for everyone, not just their own.

Dh says he would be unwilling to attend church himself to get her in. If it were THAT important for him to have her attend there, then I think he should be prepared to do this. ie. he wants me to compromise my beliefs for this, but is unwilling to himself.

AIBU to be annoyed by this stance?

YANBU but neither is he to n extent. Mt DS attends an RC school (and we are Catholic) but the school has always welcomed children of other faiths (or none). I think that is important too.

One thing you mention is that your DD has mild SN. Is this likely to affect her ability to learn in a pressured environment? I only ask as of the answer is yes then you might find she does not enjoy it there. On the other hand they should not discourage you from applying on that basis as they will have to meet her needs along with all other pupils. As the parent of a DS with SN my first thoughts about a school is about the pastoral care, DS's school is very good where this is concerned as is the secondary school he will attend. I believe results are excellent at the secondary school but that is not my primary issue where DS is concerned.

And you are Christian, you attend church and applying on that basis is perfectly valid.....you don't need to "use" church as you attend genuinely. Plenty of people are in the other camp and just use it to secure a school place...in many ways you are the more genuine applicant.

Sorry op but I don't really understand your logic.

If its the best school available for your child then surely that's the priority? Also, as a Christian wouldn't you jump at the chance of a school with a Christisn ethos? And unless you've spoken to the school I don't think you can judge them on "backdoor elitism".

I see your husband's point of view. Why is him faking Christianity to get her into this school ok? Why is it SO unreasonable to expect that you might use your genuine Church attendance?!

If I were you I'd call the school and make an appointment to visit. See how you feel once you're fully informed. Oh, and visiting the other school options might help you to decide too!

If this is the school you agree will be the best for your daughter, don't worry about "using" your church attendance in this way. If the intention of the admissions policy is to give priority to children of families that worship at the church, you're not playing the system by following the established rules. YWBU to expect your DH to attend himself to "prove" it's important to him, if you do so anyway and this is sufficient under the admissions policy.

OTOH, if you don't feel this school is right, YWBU to send your daughter there. The question of whether you use your church attendance in this way doesn't arise, as you don't want her to go to this school.

Is it the best school for your dd? Isn't that the most important question?

Why object? Are you worried you'd be doing something immoral?
Because you wouldn't be.

I agree with some why would you not want the best fr your dd. having mild sn, would you nt want the nicer learning environment for her where she might be less likely to be bullied. I say that as a mum to a dd with sn.

I don't want him to actually attend church, I just want to know if he would be willing to if it were solely down to him, to get her attendance at the school of his choice, and he wouldn't.

I'm not actually sold on it being the best school anyway. But DH is convinced it is. If he were a lone parent he would have to send her elsewhere, and would not compromise, so I don't think I should have to participate in a policy I don't agree with either.

As part of my christian values, I care as much about the education of the community as of my own daughter. I think this school's policies are harmful.

I'm very sceptical about church schools saying they have a christian ethos anyway. Don't all schools promote the basic christian values our laws and morals are based on?

OP I wonder whether your concerns about back door elitism are well founded? If you're not sure about the school's demographic, or how it gets its good results, you should definitely look into it and visit the school for a chat with management before you dismiss it for your child on principle. If you're still concerned about social inclusion and can spare the time, perhaps a stint as a governor would give you a platform to effect a change from within; you might feel differently about being part of the school if you felt it was doing its best to address that concern.

Piglet, that's exactly dh's viewpoint. But why should children of a non-religious background have to risk this, or practice hypocrisy?

Having attempted to be a governor unsuccessfully at primary, and working 50+ hours a week, I know I can't do it again.

Dh also will not consider being a governor.

Does your dd attend church with you or is that not a requirement in any case?

If you think it's the best school for her then to me it would seem strange not to apply.

Exactly if it's the best school fr your dd than you apply. Why dnt you take ur dd to church

It sounds selfish not to send your dd to that school if it's the best one for her. Her outcomes ate liely to be better if she is in a chool that is right for her

This type of school is there for those of that faith to provide an education rooted in the ethos of that faith. As you do not want that for your DD, then it is reasonable for you to swerve schools that offer it.

But this is something you need to sort out with DH, as your ideas on education differ. Your DD is old enough to have a voice in this too.

Dd does come to church with me.

The only reason this might be a better school as far as I can tell, is because they don't have to deal with as many difficult families.

Beyond this, I have problems telling the difference between the schools. They all say they don't tolerate bullying, expect high standards, offer extra-curricular, help sn etc etc. How would you actually know in practice?

I don't want to send her to a school, solely to avoid certain types. In fact entirely the opposite, I want there to be as broad an intake as possible.

I can understand both points of view. However not many good schools (where I live anyway) have a genuinely fair and mixed intake - even if you don't have to pay / pass a test / attend church / etc you often need to be able to afford inflated house prices in order to live near enough the school to get in.

Completely agree with that.

I am more comfortable with that though, because although it's unfair, it's life and market forces, which are constant in everything.

I don't like the church saying it has a christian ethos and then not doing the simplest thing like caring for those in need in their locality.

I currently teach in a very successful faith school in the same city as my previous not as successful comp. The big difference in terms of entrants that I witness is not that faith is used as 'back door elitism' but it comes down to the basics of parenting...for example, in my old school (the standard, not as good comp) parents didn't go round looking at other schools, didn't question the exam statistics but the school was the closest to where they lived so their dc just went there.

In my current (very good faith school) there is a waiting list for entry, we are questioned on every aspect of the school by prospective parents, we have students of all abilities travelling long distances every day to attend.

I suppose the point I am trying to make is that the parental involvement/support is far greater at the faith school and this is apparent every day that as they had to fight so hard to get them in the school, they don't want to waste it so make their dc work! we actually have more sn than previous school so we are far from selective

What, all the parents, cricketball? How on earth do you know how many schools they visited? And your entry criteria is based presumably on parents attending church. Why should I worship a god I don't believe in for access to decent state education for my children?

I've said this before on here but where I used to live in London, I had a choice of 1 awful school and 6 faith schools. I am atheist so DS would have been stuck going to the awful one.

So we moved 100 miles away.

Well, have you visited the school/spoken to anyone at the church about the church's involvement in the school? Our church is linked to a primary school with amazing results (I don't think we'll send DS there as it's a bit too far from our house and there are two very good non-faith schools closer), but a big part of how they get the good results is not just the families they take, but the amount of extra free resources the church family provide - for example as well as parents of DCs going into the school to help out, they have an army of retired people going in to hear reading, including several retired teachers who just volunteer for free to give extra resources. They reguarly ask for donations for things like sports and science equipment, so as well as having the parents of the DCs attending to ask, they get money/donations from the whole church congregation. I know as well that he vicar goes into the school several times a week, and doesn't just pay lipservice to being a faith school.

However, you won't konw until you ask how involved your church is with the school.

Sounds a bit like you're cutting of your nose to spite your face!

Will she thrive at the faith school? if so, send her there.

You won't wipe out back door elitism by sending your daughter to a school with more "rough families"

Anyway, you won't be "using" your faith to get her in. You and your DD are regular and genuine churchgoers. You didn't just start going so she can go ot a faith school, you've been going much longer than that.

As per the requirements not all entry is based on the students being in the same faith. And yes, you can tell on open evenings the parents that have visited other schools.....

To be perfectly honest the teaching at my current more successful school is not better than my previous school, there are more sn than my previous school, we have more cared for children at my current school, the intake is just as varied ability wise, the pastoral aspect is not better.....the only noticeable difference is the attitude displayed by the vast majority of children and their parents of needing to do well for their future. Part of this is the fight to enrol them here

UABU
You are not being unreasonable to dislike faith schools or the whole inequitable post code lottery that is school choice in this country.

However, YABU to deny your DD a chance at what might be the best school or expect your DH to lie to get her there.

As others have said the CofE school is most likely to have parents who care about their children's education.

This means they care, also, about their children's behaviour

I have a socially inept dyslexic DD1, who has been bullied by DCs who's parents don't care!

You may not like back door selection, but, to be brutally honest, it may exclude exactly the DCs your DD would be better off without.

If you don't like the way the church does things, then you need to take it up with your Vicar. It's not fair to deny your child an option that would be best for her because of your principles.

Send her to the school but if you feel that strongly about it, then don't just send her there and do nothing. Tell the school that you feel it's wrong and tell the church. Do something to support the other schools if you feel you need to, or give to society in another way.

But don't sacrifice your child for this. It's her education and happiness for the next seven years, not an opportunity for you to make a political point.

I think you are too focused on you ideals and should foucus more on what is the right school for your daughter.
We live in an imperfect world, there is no such thing as a perfect church or school.
You attend church as does your daughter. The majority of pupils in the church school will come from Christian homes and most will be respectful of Christian values, tollerence, forgiveness, respect etc this should also be the ethos of the school.
Where would your daughter fit in better, you describe her as a bit of a mouse with sn - would you really prefer to send her to the local coop to experience everything that comes with problem families which may be way to much for her just because you are not sure you morraly agree with the selection process ie that a faith school takes pupils of that faith?
As a Christian and a parent of a sn child I think you need to re think what is important here and focus on the needs of your child.