To object to DH wanting me to use my church attendance to get dd1 into school

[pouffepants]

Dd1 is due to go to high school next year. She is a mouse and has mild sn, so we are obv very nervous of this.

Amongst our choices is a c of e school, which you have to attend church to get in. I do attend church, always have and would describe myself as a christian. The school in question has the best results in the area, and is considered the best school by most. I am dubious about this, and think that they probably only achieve so well because they avoid the difficult families by backdoor elitism, which I have a problem with.

Dh agrees with this theory, but thinks I should bite the bullet and use my church attendance to get her in. I am very unhappy about using my religion in this way, in fact I'm unhappy with religious schools at all, but if a school is run by christians then it should run on a christian philosophy of caring for everyone, not just their own.

Dh says he would be unwilling to attend church himself to get her in. If it were THAT important for him to have her attend there, then I think he should be prepared to do this. ie. he wants me to compromise my beliefs for this, but is unwilling to himself.

AIBU to be annoyed by this stance?

outraged - but she's saying it's against her principles to send her child to this school and use her Christianity to back it up.

How is it then not against her principles to send her child to this school and use her Christianity to back it up?

I doubt she is using her child to make a point. It is not terribly uncommon to want to give your child what you see as the best morals, as well as the best academic education.

incidently i totally understand why some people do this i just cant get my head around why a person who didnt need to would expect the other parent to do so.

op is dh perfectly willing to support the ethos of the school and attend church related events at school with dc in support of your dc's education if work ect allows him to?

OP
Whilst I can understand your frustration with faith schools, my children are not Christian and this is a bugbear of mine, you legitimately meet the criteria for that school.

You did not establish the system of faith schools and choosing not to send your DD to a faith school will not make one iota of difference to the structure of education in this country. However, if that is the best school for your DD then it could make a huge difference to your DD.

We all have to work with the system as it stands now and do what is best for our children within that system (my children are privately educated because that is what I think is the best option where we live). By all means campaign to alter the system but in the meantime pick the option that is genuinely best for your DD.

I'm also curious about whether your DD would have to attend church to qualify for the CoE school.

YANBU to not like the idea of religious schools, but given that you're a practicing Christian, it sounds like your DD should be eligible for the school without you having to lie and pretend you're a regular attender.

YWBU to refuse to apply for the school simply on the grounds that a CoE school prioritises applications from CoE children over other children, if you feel that school's best for your DD.

If you're making a fuss about your DH not attending church because you feel that another school would be a better choice for your DD, then you need to find a way to explain this to your DH without getting into arguments about compromising beliefs. Otherwise you may find yourself in an even more complicated situation if your DH decides to attend church just to boost your DD's chances of getting in the CoE school.

Interestingly my parents did this the other way round, they chose not to send us to the local Catholic school, despite being devout churchgoing Catholics, as it had poor results and a 'rough' intake. They sent us to a (better) comprehensive instead and did the religious instruction at home.

I never saw that as them going against their principles or anything, to me it just goes without saying that you give your children the best opportunities you can (obviously without doing anything illegal etc!)

Maybe it woudo be oing against her principles, but so what? I really don't think her principles deserve this much importance when it comes to something like choosing the best education for your child.

It's against my principles to donate to Comic Relief, but I don't make my child wear uniform on the mufti day and deny him a pound for a red nose that all his friends will be playing with, because it's not his job to uphold my principles.

That's the point. Her principles are almost irrelevant, because it's not her education. It's her child's.

There is a difference between putting your principles to one side for the sake of your child's education and blatantly lying about your religious beliefs, which is what she expects her dh to do.

Of course she's using her child to make a point. She is prepared to deny her child a place at what is potentially the best school in the area simply because all other children do not qualify for the same chance.
Very altruistic, but who is the only one affected by her decision? Her child.

pertending to have a belif in god and a liking for church attendance is very very different to having those belifs but just not agreeing with the system

But you go to church already, it's not like me starting to go to church as soon as dd was born

at all the people patiently explaining to you that it's OK to send DD to the CofE school if you're COfE.

Guys - it's like, as if she could afford private but decided to go state because she thought private schools were morally wrong, mmmkay?

(Except it's not, because the difference in the schools we're talking is a lot smaller and probably due to back door selection like you say, OP)

Why would it be "backdoor elitism"? Anyone can go to church, you don't have to be middle-class or intelligent or "elite".

Well if you put your own opinions before getting your child (who might not share those opinions either) in the best school you can that's your choice.

And catwoo is right. You don't have to be a Christian to go to church (and most churches would be delighted if a non-Christian took an interest). The policy is on attendance at church.

This could mean that those entering the school will have more understanding of what Christian values are, and the ethos of the school, whether or not they're Christians themselves.

where im from the schools ask for attendance as 'proof' of the religion you also have to sign a form stating what your religion is.

its not the attendance itself the attendance is just a way to prove you are a practising r/c or anyother religion.

Completely agree with your points TudorJess.

The CofE is supposed to be there for everyone, it's not like they turn people away for not being Middle Class enough. Unlike other schools that effectively do the same because they are in areas with high house prices.

catwoo / TudorJess

You are not seriously suggesting my muslim DH and children should go and sit in a church every Sunday to mitigate the fact that 3 out of our 4 nearest primary schools are Christian faith schools where Christian children get nearly all the places at the price of 10% of the capital costs only of the school (which can be waived by the local council). In fact those three schools admitted 1 child in total from the local community out of over 100 places (all the rest were practising Christians or siblings)

are there many christian kids in muslim schools?

There are a few Muslim children at our CofE. And some Sikhs.

catwoo there are very very few muslims school. There are lots and lots of Christian schools even in areas such as where I live with very high ethnic minority populations (EAL 75%+). We stand virtually no chance of admission into 3 of our 4 local State Funded primary schools. Christians stand a chance of being admitted to all of them.

Outraged but where I am there are very very few as I mentioned less than 1% of the places at our 3 nearest primaries went to children (well a child) from the local community.

There seems to be a parallel here with people in selective school areas who don't agree with selection but who send their dc to grammar schools anyway. Numerous threads on here on that issue and some people firmly think it's hypocritical whereas others find it's acceptable.

You haven't chosen the admissions criteria for the local schools around you and so many would think because that's the system you are faced with then as due to your faith and location you have access to the faith school it isn't unreasonable to use it even though you don't agree with their admissions criteria, others would think you are hypocritical to use a school you have an issue with when there are alternatives. I would add to this that you are unlikely to find any school where you 100% agree with the way they do everything, so it may be that a compromise has to be struck whereever you go. It really has to come down to your own conscience and always being careful not to sacrifice your child's wellbeing to your principles.

I do think you are unreasonable to expect your dh to effectively lie to get your dd in though - that is asking him to act hypocritically.

My personal view is that if there is another school where you think your child can be happy then use it, if not use the faith one.

I think that the best thing to do is to further investigate the schools in the area. Which means having a look around the school, speaking to as many people as you can and really getting a feel for each school.

When you talk to other parents, ask particularly about bullying and the school's record with children with SN. If you get the feeling that the school is very reluctant to listen to parents of children who are having issues, or move to help these children, then walk away from that school.

You might find that the school does have a very inclusive acceptance policy, which will make the decision easier.

I would also advise against going solely on the results or the Ofsted report. We sent our DC to the school which was not the best, on paper, but which gave us the best feeling when being shown around.

At the end of the day, if you really feel that this school is not inclusive then I guess it comes down to the alternative schools. If there is a school that would be a good second choice, then go for it. If not, then you really have to think about the consequences for your DD.

I don't think that you are 'sacrificing' your DD, but I do think that you need to fully investigate the options before getting bogged down in principles.

I've not asked dh to attend church, I was just illustrating to him the hypocrisy that he wants me to indulge in.

I know it's a tiny act, but I think it's important not to support institutions you don't believe in. My children are white, if there was a school nearby with good results that only admitted white children would I be excused for sending my children there? Because it's not my fault how the system is, and should do everything with only a thought for my children?

It doesn't sit well with me. Religious divisiveness is the source of many problems.

There are 2 other comps to choose from. Both of which I'm happy with. They have less good results and are reputedly rougher, but not dreadful. Dh isn't happy with them, not because of results, but mix of kids.

There's also a free school opening, but I don't know much about it yet.

YABU.

The hypocrisy you ask of your dh is different though - he would need overt pretence in order to satisfy the admissions criteria, whereas your hypocrisy is less direct - it's more an implied acceptance of a system you don't believe in.

That said I admire your stance and if you are happy with the alternate schools then by all means use them.

Have you considered what will suit your dd best, or is it all about how you feel?