Family member trying to 'get off' drink driving charge.

[jeezlouize]

Namechanged.

My BIL was arrested and charged with drink driving last week. He was 3 times over the limit. There has been much whispering amongst the family since, hearing dribs and drabs about what happened etc but last night everyone got together for a meal at PIL's house. The atmosphere was tense to say the least.
Halfway through the night my FIL (BIL's dad) brought up the subject of the drink driving charge and said he'd like to speak to us all about it as he had something to ask us all.
It turns out BIL has been seeing a lawyer who claims he can 'get him off' with the charge. FIL was asking if we could all chip in financially to pay for this lawyer. It would be about £500 per couple (there are 5 couples in the family).
The reason being, BIL will automatically lose his job if he loses his license. My SIL doesn't work and they have 4dc.
I am very, very angry with BIL, and frankly disgusted at this suggestion about this lawyer. It has caused some tension between me and DH (BIL's brother). This is not about the money, it's about the principle. AIBU in thinking BIL should be punished for what he's done? I'm really agonising over this as I don't want SIL and dcs to suffer.

If there's a legal technicality to get the bil off, then you can probably find it yourself with a bit of googling.

But 3 times over the limit it's not an accident, nor is it stupidity. It's deliberately driving drunk.

If your DH can't see that then I'd be worrying about his other value judgements.

I haven't read all replys so I'm sure someone has already said, what happens if you pay and he doesn't get off.. No job no money no way of paying you back! Don't do it!

No I wouldn't contribute to helping the stupid cunt.

Hopefully the courts will throw the book at him.

Reindeer, it is actually very common for cases to be thrown out due to the police not adhering to PACE, 15-18% of police case brought via the PPS were thrown out last year due to non compliance to PACE which frankly is appalling imo.

I have text other SIL and we are meeting up later for coffee, it sounds like she feels similarly to me. I also know her and her DH are not really financially able to hand over £500. The longer the day goes on the more incensed I am feeling about this. I will not have this idiot's actions cause problems in my marriage.

I agree with Ed, this isnt helping.

If BiL isnt able to manage his drinking so as not to drink/drive then he is in the wrong job. He should get out now before he does kill or maim someone (including himself).

Does your dh honestly think this is a one off and there are exceptional circumstances? That is surely the only basis in which he can think it is ok to help his brother?

Brunei, I didn't realise the numbers were that high. I know a few solicitors who work in that area, most of them do the hearing themselves though, they don't instruct counsel (so that they can retain the fee).

However it's more because there appears to be very little discussion from the solicitor with the BIL, that concerns me. If this case does get to court, there will be very little the solicitor/advocate could do to avoid him getting a ban. I assume all of the solicitors efforts would be in getting the CPS to drop it before that stage, because BIL is screwed if it goes before the Magistrates.

bureni, how does that statistic break down against different crimes? My understanding was that for drink/driving the procedure was well structured making slip-ups far less common.

You're in a difficult position, I don't envy you. If you do lend him the money and he gets off, is he going to stop drinking and driving? Could you insist that he does some sort of voluntary work to repay his debt to society? I hate drink drivers, but in your situation I would really struggle to know what to do. If he's going to carry on drinking and driving then it would have to be a definite no.

I've name-changed for this as a person irl knows my user name.

Speaking as someone who has had a couple of family members banned for drink driving, and having seen how the consequences of their selfish actions have played out on their family, I wouldn't give any money. I prefer the suggestion that you support your SIL and their 4dc's when the shit hits the fan.

DH recently did something that skated on the illegal side of the tracks, and his ex-boss (he's been made redundant) threatened action through the police, unless we stopped pursuing money DH was owed as holiday. I was so angry that DH had done what he did that I contemplated separating from him and it's only in the last day or so that we have been able to start trying to rebulid the trust that he shattered.

He had jeopardised getting a new job and many other areas of our lives all for completely selfish reasons. He was lucky that the police weren't involved - but he would have had to have lived with the consequences, which is what your BIL should do. Don't bow to pressure from you PIL and family - Good Luck

I genuinely don't think they are interested in the here and now, just the future of their DS's family (albeit through ridiculously rose tinted specs, as I for one think he will do it again with possibly unthinkable consequences). DH also said last night, 'wouldn't you do the same for one of our kids?' To which I spat 'my kids wouldn't do this'. Probably unfair of me to assume but the suggestion made me so angry. I'm so messed up over this.

jeez good luck when meeting your SIL, if it is something that you don't feel comfortable doing (let alone have the financial capacity to do so) then please don't let your DH push you into this. He should discuss this properly with you before giving such a large sum away.

Reindeer, those fiqures are N.I fiqures and not overall U.K fiqures, they relate to all N.I crime and not just drink driving, There does seem to be a large number of lawyers here who are expert in finding loopholes in PACE and procedure and who go out of their way to get people of the hook though legal aid is not readily available for these cases due to a slightly different legal system to England, normally the defense cases require an insurance policy that is paid for by the defendant to ensure the lawyer gets their money.

Personally - I wouldnt conntribute a bean to his defence. However if the law has loopholes, they are there to be exploited. And yes, I, personally, would exploit any loophole.

Tell the fool to take out a loan, or Sil can get a job. That is how people in the real world manage their problems.

Jeez, I think that what you would do as a parent is very different from what you would do for an adult sibling. Also, for you, this is an adult sibling in law.

By extension this affects your own DCs as I assume that you dont have £500 in spare change. So the question is just how much should your DCs pay towards helping drunk Uncle Twatfeatures escape the consequences of his actions?

Poor Op. You've really been put in a shit situation.
It sounds like your DH has already decided to lend the money.

What about his dc though?

It will be cold comfort for them that their father has had his comeuppance.

Does the Op have any responsibility to her nieces/nephews to help their father?

It's not just the money, it's the fact you're all expected to be behind your BIL in his attempt to get out of being punished. Of course his wife is backing him - I imagine she knows this isn't the first time he's done it and of course she doesn't want him to lose his job.

The thing is that he would in all likelihood be able to get another job or his wife could get a job, but life couldn't go on as normal, which is what your BIL wants and think should happen.

There is solicitor, he's quite (in) famous for getting people acquitted of motoring offences, including drink driving. He has a certain notoriety because he often, not always, has celebrity cases.

Nick Freeman is the name, Manchester, I think. Let me have a google. yup this is the bloke - he can get any case thrown out on a technicality. Mind you, I bet he's expensive.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Freeman

The OP can certainly help out the nieces and nephews once their father is convicted of drink driving. Helping BIL evade the law is a bit above and beyond though. He is the one ultimately responsible for them and it is entirely his fault if he is convicted.

I agree with what Numberlock said earlier

The critical point for me would be that if you help him now, and he does it again and kills someone, you will also be partly responsible

While I absolutely agree with everyone that what BIL has done is abhorrent and his PILs are stupid, if your DH wants to do it, I think you're going to have to suck it up. Your marriage is seriously going to suffer, as is your relationship with your in-laws, if you don't and you have your children to think of.

It would be different if your DH agreed with you or the other couples were on your side but if you're the only one.....and you can afford the money.....are your principles more important than your family life?

You have my sympathies though because it is fucking galling to have to do it.

I know I'm probably being thick here, but why does he need this particular lawyer?

Surely he can get a lawyer through legal aid, and that lawyer, as any lawyer surely would, will look for any technicalities /loopholes?

Sadly, I think that the family relationships are going to suffer no matter what now thanks to to PiL's misguided intervention.

Just how strained will family meet-ups be from now on? I know that I would not be able to keep my contempt hidden from my BiL if my DH wanted to help him out in similar circumstances.

If the money is paid against OP's wishes then that will create a divide between OP & her DH and also DH's family.

The same will happen if the money isnt paid.

God, what a mess.