To think this is a sign of the times we live in.....

[MidWeekSlump]

My daughter today was telling us about her new high school... lots of stories. Then we got to lunch, her friend gets free dinners, when they went to get dinner (which cost my daughter £2), her friend complained as she had to pay 20p extra to add to her lunch as hers is free.

She said her friend started arguing with the dinner ladies about her free dinner and being a single parent family, then went on to say she shouldn't have to pay for the drink.

My daughter said she thought her friend was being silly as it was a lovely meal for only 20p a day if she wants extras....

Am I wrong for feeling sad that my daughters friend at 11 is already pulling the whole "I'm entitled to it" attitude out of the bag????

She didn't know she needed money for a drink and was embarrassed at being singled out. No wonder she was upset.

I think we should go back to the old days.
When I was on free school meals I had to sit on a separate table.
That taught me my place.
That learnt me.

Interesting quirrel. IME it doesn't always work that way.

DH had to go without a lot in his childhood because they were really hard up. He was never denied food (his mother found free school meals a lifeline even though they both hated him having to queue for them separately like he was a second class citizen because they were poor.

But he definitely went without adequate heating and also the kind of thing that makes children and teenagers innocently happy - toys, clothes that everyone else is wearing, records, TV etc.

Consequently he's one of the biggest spend-thrifts I've ever met. He will deny himself nothing without actually getting into debt. I think he did spend all his rent money on fashionable clothes and going out before we met.

I still see that mad glint in his eyes when he spots some frippery he wants.

I can't believe children have to choose between water and a treat.

What an absolutely abhorrent two tier system.

OP: Your 11YO came home and instead of being sympathetic to her lifelong friend who was definitely probably loudmouthing out of embarrassment, told you how entitled she was and how she played the single mum card?

Either your child is a nasty little brat and you should be ashamed of her, not to mention questioning your parenting skills as she is 11!!!

Or you've completely twisted what your DD said to enable your tutting and head shaking.

She was rude to staff... As a friend of a teacher in a Secondary school.

Kids on FSM are told how much is on the card and that they will need to get what ever it is they want at no more than the price on their card unless they have the money to top it, They have free water as do all schools.

I went back to college after having my first child, my partner worked I think in a whole year at college I ate two lunches there. Should I of thought with the staff because I should eat ? No she was given her money to spend and she wanted to go over it and she would of none it and was pushing her luck! We used to have kids claim there cards in the morning then go home sick and try to use them the next day giving them 2 days worth of food (well they wanted a shed load of burgers and chips and other crap) should that been aloud?

It was a choice of a snack/water or a drink.- a choice probably to be made by many children regardless of FSM or not. She didn't realise. It was pointed out to her. She could then choose which one she wanted quietly and without a fuss. She didn't and made a fuss.

Yes it could have been because she was embarrassed, but I bet a whole bunch of new yr 7 kids had similar issues (not knowing the procedures etc) at the checkout and were similarly embarrassed.

Once she understands the process then it would appear from the views on here that the majority of you think she should still be entitled to both the snack and drink. I only hope that the ones who don't agree are not posting because they don't want to be involved in the whole benefit bashing argument.

I am not benefit bashing at all. I just think that (like Wordfactory) all children need to make choices and work within their budget regardless of being on FSM or not.

Children do not need a snack after a full meal. If children choose a snack and then drink water instead of buying a drink then that is their choice. It won't be only children on FSM who are having to make that choice. Most children will be working to a budget.

I am personally not intending to deprive a disadvantaged kid of the same choices as the rest of the kids (they should be equal) but I don't see why they should have more choices than a lot of the kids.

Is the answer to have set menus with no choice for anyone? There would be outrage at that too, but it is probably the only fair answer.

YANBU. Typical of the times we live in. Someone gets something for nothing and it still isn't enough.

There will be plenty of kids that are just above the free school meal threshold that will have to deny themselves something that children of better off parents wouldn't think twice about.

And a desert was included. We are talking about an extra snack.

Can I just be a bit about the moments abusing the Ops DD.

I think the thread is grim. I think the op posting it is grim.
But her DD is also a child and may have had no idea how to handle an awkward situation. Posting that she is nasty is as unpleasant as attacking the child in the op.

This thread is disgusting. She'll eleven. She got an unexpected bill, because no-one had explained the system to her.

People who weren't even there are condemning her for being rude. She might have been pretty polite, actually.

There's a great big reasonable area of behaviour between gobby, rude and aggressive behaviour and skulking away from issues 'umbly.

And I tell you this, OP, and flojo. Don't question adults doesn't do children well if someone on the till has made a mistake, or there's been a computer error.

I was the daughter of a single parent, and don't question adults would have made us a lot poorer when I was getting shopping for my mother at the age of 11. I was confident and polite at going to the customer service desk and querying errors on the receipt.

Oh wait. No. I was entitled, wasn't I?

Could be worse, when I was at school (1980's), the free school meal vouchers were handed out in registration every Monday morning-in front of the whole class. I assume this doesn't happen anymore & it is more discreet as I know what kids were like back then for mocking those on FSM's.

shewhowines I like the idea of set school dinners with some flexibility for dietary needs or likes or dislikes.

I also like school uniforms with zero tolerance for jewellery except modest religious symbols.

They make everyone realise they are the same in the things that matter, which is an important lesson in life.

I'm excluding educational and sporting achievement and things you can afford, or not, when you leave school and start earning your own money.

"It doesn't make it right because it could be worse'.

Before that children had to steal bread and was punished/hung for it, so that made your experience, ok.

"Typical of the times we live in. Someone gets something for nothing and it still isn't enough."

That's children for you, they expect to eat what their friends do.

being on benefits isn't as bad as some of you are making out the working poor really do have it much worse off I have been in both situations. A quick calculation done based on two adults and two kids with no job in a private rent. you will get £113.6 Child tax credit. £111.45 JSA £33.70 child benefit so that is £258.83 a week with no rent, council tax or school lunches or childcare to pay for. No it's not a massive amount but it's certainly doable. FSM are not income assessed if you work your not entitled to them. Regarding the op if she is on fsm she has an allowance just like everyone else though some may have more than her thats life some paying kids will have more than others though perhaps the system should be explained to the kids before they start so they are aware of what they can have and how the meal deals work.

YANBU. She's being entititled and thinking that someone else should pay for her to have extra. Everything has a value and you can either afford it or not. She also should never have argued with the dinner lady.

I pay taxes and firmly believe in the Bevan report and a social security system. I absolutely believe in free education and free school dinners. However, if the entitled madam had spoken to me like that for 'extra' I would certainly have given her short shrift. She's already been lucky enough to be living in a country with amazing benefits (which make me very proud). She's won the global lottery on that.

The sense of entitlement of people today baffles me.

op you are so not wrong.
it is a sign of the times that treads like these are started

SoSoMamanBebe

You also believe in condemning people as entitled madams based on what we heard from one woman on the internet, who heard it from her 11-year old

Child A has a FSM that doesn't include a drink and snack.
Child B has not been given enough money for the drink and snack by his parents.

What's the difference?

Why should Child A be given it anyway? Why should Child A be susbsidised by her friend? Why should Child B have to budget but not Child A?

FSM are not income assessed if you work your not entitled to them

Yes they are and yes you do, unless this varies between LA's.

And am I the only one to see the irony of people slating the OP for being mean to an 11 year old, while saying her 11 year old is horrible????

when i was a child if you had packed lunches .ie. didnt or couldnt pay for school dinners, you sat on your own.
that was me

"Why should Child A be given it anyway"

No-one said that she should, above another child.

But this is third hand and the tone of some posters seem to forget that we are talking about children.

The point was made that perhaps there shouldn't be that choice.

School uniforms are supposed to stop income differential bullying, these sort of arrangements cause them.

wordfactory Pagwatch pointed out the same. Don't worry.

birdsgottafly Why should Child A be given it anyway,
No-one said that she should, above another child.

But that the whole point.People have been saying that.

People have been arguing that child A should be given it anyway. It may be they really haven't read the thread properly and don't realise the FSM in question includes
main meal/desert/and either a drink or a snack
but the majority of posters seem to me to be saying that the child should have had the drink and snack.

Those who are saying she is entitled, are arguing that a drink or snack is not an unfair choice given that a main meal and desert are also included.

IMO she is not being deprived of a treat as some posters have suggested. She wanted both the drink and snack which a lot of children not on FSM would not be able to have either. This to me is fair. Indeed more than fair because some children not on FSM wouldn't even be able to have the desert.

I give my son £2 per day for lunch. This buys a meal and a snack or a meal and a drink. If he picks the former there is water available. If he wanted a meal, snack and drink that would cost £2.50. An extra 50p a day adds upto nearly £100 per school year.

If all pupils who receive fsm wanted to have a meal, snack and drink this would end up costing the school a fortune. The school get their money from the council, who get their money from council tax. If money is being spent on providing extra drinks or snacks , then that is money that is not available to spend on books or equipment.

It makes no difference if the pupil pays for or is in receipt of fsm. The food still has to be bought and paid for by someone.

I don't think there is any harm in teaching a child that you have to make choices according to how much money you have.