To think this is a sign of the times we live in.....

[MidWeekSlump]

My daughter today was telling us about her new high school... lots of stories. Then we got to lunch, her friend gets free dinners, when they went to get dinner (which cost my daughter £2), her friend complained as she had to pay 20p extra to add to her lunch as hers is free.

She said her friend started arguing with the dinner ladies about her free dinner and being a single parent family, then went on to say she shouldn't have to pay for the drink.

My daughter said she thought her friend was being silly as it was a lovely meal for only 20p a day if she wants extras....

Am I wrong for feeling sad that my daughters friend at 11 is already pulling the whole "I'm entitled to it" attitude out of the bag????

i don't agree with the 'sign of the times' aspect of the op

however it is reasonable for a school to set a price limit on its free school meals.

that was the case some twenty years ago when i last had a free school meal.

that price does not have to include bought drink, as water is sufficient.

Ah, I have an analogy!

I expect most MNers believe that forest fires can happen. Yet, if an MNer called YouAlwaysGetMoreAtTheCutPriceStore posted in AIBU to ask for advice to do with her daughter Norma, who'd started a forest fire, how believing would we be?*

Obviously that would mean all MNers automatically think forest fires can't happen, right?

Or, perhaps, one can believe that situations are possible, and yet think a particular individual is making everything up.

*Someone should start that thread. Seriously. It could be hilarious.

Is there any particular reason why you think that MidWeekSlump has made everything up BigJessie?

As you say, the situation is possible, and I haven't seen anything contentious by this poster before.

I just read the entire thread.
And I'd just like to say....

What type of benefits were these people getting where they had plenty of money? Clearly not the same ones I was on when I was made redundant.

The op sounded incredibly like benefit bashing not very well disguised and I would be suprised if it wasn't over exaggerated just a touch.

And yes, it's definitley a sign of the times when an 11 child who probably didn't understand that the whole meal wasn't free has people calling her "entitled" like it's an insult.

Because, unless I'm missing the point she is entitled to free school meals.

Or are we adding benefit fraud to the list of shame?

And "working poor"?
Jealous of not getting free school meals but oh so ready to bash the people that are.

That's all.

Above post is an analogy, not an accusation. Although, if you want to go down that tangent instead of the well-trodden road of "well, you didn't even see the incident OP, and I've never met her, but I'll call her grasping anyway", it's a welcome change of pace.

I think the whole thread is ridiculous enough that it could be All Made Up, and I can't blame anyone for feeling the same!

My understanding was that the OP thought she appeared 'entitled' because she argued and complained when someone explained that she had a £2 budget, not because she was claiming FSM.

Sorry that was in response to Tantrums's post.

You might be right Jessie - ridiculous and all made up. Who knows. I tend to take posts at face value but maybe I'm gullible.

Sorry been away.

There does seem to be two definite camps and very few posters seem to see both sides - wordfactory a definite exception.

In an ideal world there might be only water for everyone or a limited menu to make everyone equal. Given that this is the real world, and in this particular situation as described by the op , we can only take her word for how it happened (as in every single thread started on mumsnet). Yes it may be exaggerated and in that case, this whole argument is null and void.

But it may not be and in that case- going on the information given, then the whole situation may have been smoothed out when the allowance was explained by the dinnerlady and the child given an opportunity to put something back. Yes I agree she may have been embarrassed, but that would have been the right thing to do - not argue back with the dinner lady.

Totally agree Tantrums. 100%

I still think an 11 year old who comes home and retells the the tale the way OP has is either a nasty, pretentious brat
-who talks about a long time friend that way? In such an unusually adult manner at disgust at grabby children on benefits? Especially at that age?-

Or OP has coached bigotry into her, which would explain such a response....

OR the most likely, her DD told the story quite innocently and OP has twisted it to fit her own agenda.

Are there horrible pre-teens who do talk back? Yep. Of course.

An 11 year old on her first day getting confused about her FSM and either talking back out of embarrassment, or more likely asking out of confusion and innocence seems far more likely IMO. Talking back out of embarrassment doesn't make it okay, but I certainly understand...She's a child. I still think it's more likely she got confused and flustered.

This two tiered system isn't fair, the wailing about how those not on benefits struggle too isn't fair, and the benefit bashing/propaganda isn't fair.

Anyway or which way, this is a story told third hand through an adult's eyes, and we'll never know what truly happened.

tantrum I think the situation where the working poor feel extremely aggrieved has reached a particularly sore point.

It has been going this way for some time. As a long time campaigner for the Labour party I really noticed it coming to a head at the last election.

Yet these feelings are either ignored or dismissed. Somehow they are not considered legitimate, especially by people who are not poor.

I know it's anathema to much of the left wing intelligencia, but the poor are not a homogenous group. They are not a happy band of brothers fighting oppression.

They see abuses of the system far more regularly and up close than those in Primrose Hill. And they are hugely and mightily pissed off.

I am part of the group of people who work, earn £500 over the tax credit threshold, not entitled to housing benefit etc.
I'm not jealous of people on benefits. I don't think my DCs should get FSM even though, with 3 DCs we cannot afford school meals, we provide a packed lunch.

I just find it irritating to hear people complaining oh I haven't got any money, my DCs should get free school meals.

Well no. Because you have a job.
The people who are struggling to get by and their only source of income is the small amount of money the government provides are entitled. And that's entitled in the true sense of the word, not as an insult.

I've been working poor and now I'm benefit scum.

It isn't fair that the working poor don't get free school meals.

Working tax credit would make me £40 a week better off than now ( the jobcentres own figures) but with school dinners and transport to work there isn't much difference.

I still found the OP offensive because she is insulting an 11 yr old on the basis of hearsay.

But shouldn't those people be rewarded for working long hours in a very low paid job? Some may be bringing in little more than benefits would do and if they're genuinely "poor" I can understand them feeling sllghtly disgruntled.

Thats not jealousy as such - just wanting equality.

So how do you classify who the working poor are?
I mean, we have 37p in the bank until next tuesday. We shop on a budget. But we are not entitled to any help and I think it's fair.
We work. As far as I'm concerned, benefits are there for people in a situation where they are unable to work.
If you can, and do go out to work, why would you be entitled to help?

Don't understand why a child is entitled to a free flavoured drink everyday? How exactly is it necessary for her nutritional wellbeing?

I wonder why her mum didn't teach the child to be more careful and gracious about taking. If I am provided a free meal by someone, I make sure to order something inexpensive and will often stick to water, just because I don't want to take advantage of the host. Why do normal rules of being gracious and taking just what you need from others, fly out of the window when it is the state that is providing?

It is a grabby mentality to take whatever you can, just because it is free. It doesn't excuse it in a child of 11, because chances are she picked it up from an entitled mum, and she will continue down the same track. (Nor does it excuse the same grabby mentality in our MPs or bankers, btw)

The Institute for Fiscal Studies recently (2010-12) conducted a two year study across two areas of the UK, in which every pupil received a free school meal.

They found that these pupils were 1-2 months ahead of their peers at the end of the two year period. In a third area they offered FSM to an increased number of pupils, but not all of them, and no educational improvement was found.

It's interesting, and I believe that this is available in other EU countries, but I doubt that there is much political will to spend more money on FSM, despite the fact that it would remove stigma and ensure at least one good quality meal for every child and lead to better academic achievement across the board.

So because her meal is free she should have chosen the cheapest thing on the menu?
FFS
let's just make them eat bread and water shall we?
How dare they think they might be "entitled" to eat the same as everyone else.

because chances are she picked it up from an entitled mum

im working poor wordfactory i dont begrudge free school meals to anyone, just cos my kids cant get them. i dont begrudge benefits to those that need them...the only thing that angers me are fraudulant claims. Amongst my friends, who are working poor, the only people who would begrudge this child the same food at lunchtime as her friends, do so because they are narrow minded and mean spirited. And ignorant with no empathy.

"If you can, and do go out to work, why would you be entitled to help?"

Because your shitty wages are barely enough to meet the cost of living. Not rocket science.

I'm hiding this thread now. I'm disgusted with it.

So again, who qualifies as working poor?

Those 20p cup drinks are sold at my DS's secondary school. They are part of the FSM offer of the day.

I think it is the separate snack that would be the 'extra' 20p.

FSMs take a bit of getting used to at secondary - the range of stuff on offer / for sale is huge compared to primary - so there is much more scope for initial confusion, especially in such compressed, hectic lunch breaks.

my income barely covers cost of living-thats how/why i would say I am working poor-not sure about proper classification...shoes/clothes usually bought by relatives etc

Another thought i just had--most things most 11 year olds get are 'free', in that they dont work and earn a wage...most of them arent gracious and humble and accepting of everything they are given in life