to think an income of under £17k is not "living in poverty" as stated by Save the Children?

[Wigglewoo]

Ok I guess it does depend where you live etc. And how much your mortgage / housing costs are doesn't it?

But I really don't see how anyone can call an income of say the higher end of under 17k to be living in poverty.... My dh earns 14k and with tax creditsn child benefit etc we manage fine. We certainly don't struggle to eat or heat the house.. Dd has new shoes for school (one of the things cited as an indication of poverty was lack of new shoes) and we even have enough for a very small break away....

Am I being unreasonable? I appreciate tax credits do make a difference but even without these we could manage.

There is a difference between absolute poverty and relative poverty. Also a lot depends on housing costs and costs of getting to work.

Prehaps what is more important is to work out a family's disposible income after housing costs, childcare and travel to work.

I also think you have to factor in people's savings and other assets. It is much easier to survive on 17K if you have 10K savings in the bank for rainy days. However if you are on 17K for years on end then any savings will evaporate.

I think you will find that the people that really do live in poverty are the least likely to discuss it. They feel shame and desperation, this is what the loan sharks prey on. They befriend them and then take advantage. Only wealthy people complain about poverty, it is an annoyance that they can't have the usual holiday this year, etc. Save the children are speaking for the people who are least likely to ask for help.

We're on 13k, plus tax credits and some housing benefits. I wouldn't say we're in poverty, but we're pretty skint. Agree that it depends on alot of other factors as well - we've got some debt, and DH has to drive to work, which we could do without. Our rent is pretty cheap though.

It's based on averages, and as your circumstances are obviously not average - your mortgage is less than you would pay for a rented bedsit around here - of course you're capable of coping better than a lot of others would be.

It depends where you live. We pay £18000 just in rent for a 2 bed flat. How much rent/ mortgage do you pay?

Haven't read anything about this except this thread, but presumably the aim of Save the Children is to push for higher living standards for the poorer children in society. So they wouldn't really get their message across by saying "Well 14k is an ok income to get by on if you have savings and live in a cheap part of the country, but if you happen to have had some bad luck along the way and live in an expensive part of the country then you'll struggle on 17k, but maybe tax credits and other benefits will help, it's hard to say for sure unless we take all your individual circumstances into consideration". No-one is going to take anything from that, so a single statement (which may not be true for some families) has far more impact.

Also, I think it's a good idea to raise living standards for all, so anything which helps those on 14k get up to 17k, for example, may also help those on 17k get up to 20k, and that surely is a good thing for society?

I pay £13 k in rent a year for a one bedroom flat, so I'd have a grand total of 5k left for bills, food, toiletries, dentist, travel, clothes, (not to mention disabled care costs & childcare but will leave those out as not 'normal' costs)... Id say £17k can indeed be severe poverty!

You can't put one sum on it though, as if no rent, it would be very comfortable.

Agree with an earlier poster about the pockets of poverty - working low wage & private accommodation & existing debt & poor health & single parent are really key indicators/ causes I would think.

Where we are, the average salary is between £12-16K and the average house price is £200k. Most houses are bought as second homes (we're on the coast), pushing the prices up, which means that locals cannot afford to buy or rent. There is no industry down here other than the Hotel industry so jobs out of season are hard to come by.

We have a lot of poverty.

Oh yes also agree with really struggling poor people not broadcasting it. Me & my ds sleep on a moldy mattress as flat so damp & cant afford to replace it (esp as will go moldly again as conditions wont change) but you wouldn't have a clue by looking at us, why would I wear my struggle & desperation on my sleeve for people to judge/ pity/ sneer? Just doing everything I humanly can to change my situation. I find showing how hard I am struggling - and I know am v v lucky compared to alot of people, but I find it strips me of my internal resources as it makes me feel like a passive victim/ supplicant & less likely to be able to cope.

We have only cb no wages or anything at the moment and the job centre haven't processed dh's jsa claim. Not sure how we're meant to pay any bills. Our mortgage is £600 a month as it is.

The only reason my children have school shoes is because my mum stepped in.

I gointomany house as a CP SW and many do not have beds, when i go through budgeting there are geniune reasons for this.

Some of the living conditions and the way that this impacts on a child's health that i see, shouldn't exist in the UK and it isn't because of poor parenting, it is usually a sequence of misfortunes, bad landlords can play a part.

I spent most of my childhood living in "poverty" . Us kids always had everything we needed, but I didn't realise how hard my mum worked or how much she went without until I was much older. She would never have spoken up or asked for help in case people thought she wasn't doing a good job with us.

Another point I wanted to make was that the people who would speak up about living in poverty tend to get a lot of stick. The "squeezed middle" (thank you, Daily Mail) seem to believe we live in poverty because we spend all our money on frivolities, or because we're alcoholics or drug addicts. It's horrible social profiling, but it does happen.

A final point, one snobby woman once told me I wouldn't be poor if I gave up my once-a-month night out with my friends . I very impolitely explained to her that being poor is preferable to never leaving my house.

As I said before we have to pay more in rent alone ( just under 20k I think) for a one bed
Our work is completely based on being in London ( or poss another large city abroad like Moscow/ Berlin/ new York). So there is no way we can move out to save money, as it is we already have commuter expenses ( lucky one one as partner cycles)

Then basic childcare costs ( v fortunate that we can share working from home so need less days)- but the average family would prob need full time

Then just living in general. We have a v good salary for the uk, but tbh we would still struggle if any of the factors in life changed ie: larger flat ( which we would like), higher travel fees/ for us both, more childcare needed.. Then we def couldn't live our life

Unless we had a council house here and lived of lentils we couldn't survive on 17k

It's definitely the housing costs thatmake a difference isn't it. Then any debts being paid off. Then lifestyle choices and their costs (sky, smoking, drinking, smartphones, holiday choices, social lives, etc).

I'm always shocked at threads that mention housing costs. I live in a lovely 2 bed house with a nice big garden, my rent is £395 pcm! (Yes I live up north, East Yorkshire).

Bored, where I'm in London a house with a garden would be well over £2000 per month

£17,000 gives a net income of £1138 per month. It's doable even without tax credits, as long as there are no debts, housing/commuting costs are low, and there aren't other ancillary costs involved, such as childcare.

However, even with tax credits, if any of those factors apply, even £25,000 salary can result in children living in poverty. If your housing costs are £1000 per month (not uncommon even for a 2-bed in some areas) and your childcare another £1000 pcm, new school shoes may be waaay down on the list of priorities.

That's what I mean goldchilled, there is such HUGE differences in housing costs across the country. It makes it hard to come up with certain figures doesn't it!

Can I ask - does the amount of housing benefit received depend on area as well as income?

Just curious...

Wigglewoo Yes every local authority has a Local Housing Allowance based on the lowest 20% of rental cost depending on number of bedrooms in their area.

Yes, the level of housing benefit varies according to income and area. Lots of people have a shortfall between theit rent and HB, and then struggle because of this.

Well there was a Local Housing Allowance which was regionally adjusted in line with average rents. You could even keep the difference up to £15 but I think thats going....

Have widescreen tvs been mentioned yet?

The minister on this morning has just come out with a blinder,

"We should'nt make a fuss about children not wearing coats, because many children don't want to/like to, wear coats, even in the colder weather".

Even Phillip Schofield looked like this , , .

Can't keep the HB difference anymore, no!

wtf birds? Which minister is this?