About tipping in America

[AnnaLiza]

I was in LA last week and decided to get a haircut so I went to a salon near the hotel which had good reviews. The owner was the sole hairdresser and did a decent job at cutting my hair but it was by no means the best haircut I've ever had. Anyway, when I was paying ($85) his secretary asked "so are you leaving a tip for Nico today?". I must have gone purple as I was not expecting that...I then said "I don't think it's necessary" and hurried out as quick as I could, feeling like the meanest person ever, which I'm not at all.
I can just about undertstand tipping the waiter when there's no national minimum and they rely on tips for a living...but what's the justification for asking for a tip when you're a professional who charges $85 for a haircut? I find it very rude to be asked for money and then made to feel like shit for not forking out more. If you think $85 is not enough then just charge more and let people decide if they want to pay for your services.
Am I missing something?

I would only tip if I think the service was good, liked haircut, good sever service, etc

August is the holidays IN Rome and Madrid and Barça. Did the 45 degree heat and deserted streets and ultra cheap hotels not give you a clue. That would be like rolling up to an american restaurant on thanksgiving and wondering why the staff wanted to be somewhere else. You may as well complain that you were in Paris and wondered why the decent restaurants were shut on the Saturday night

re. the 'fake' service -

when I started waitressing in the states I performed 'European' style service - discreet, relatively reticent, giving people plenty of time to chat between courses and so on. I always got pretty meagre tips. Watching those who got the largest tips, they made their labour/service very evident - big boomy 'How are you guys todayyyy?' 'Hey cutie' to kids etc etc...they'd also whip away plates as soon as someone had finished, even if their dining companions hadn't finished that particular course. I don't think it was totally to push them on, but more to SHOW that they were paying attention, and making their service 'obvious'.

Other aspects of American life seemed very 'literal' as well, so I took it as part of their culture - to work in 'service' in the states wasn't just about getting orders right and being polite and not dropping the plates! It also involved a kind of 'emotional' labour if that makes sense?

Anyway, I was a pretty rubbish waitress but on a busy night could make pretty amazing money - all in tips natch - once I mastered the 'have a nice day!' aspect of it.

Outraged -- if you didn't want to tip then you probably wouldn't want to go back either.

The feedback/ tip/ booking aspect of it works particularly well in the beauty business where a building a steady clientele is important. People who find a fit with a hairdresser are likely to come back and everyone will be happy. A hairdresser will generally pay better attention the second time a client comes for a haircut and it is assumed the client will not fume in silence but will provide directions about the haircut and will also give feedback in the form of a tip. Many British people are reticent about telling people what they really want and will fume in silence.

With restaurants, steady clientele is not that important. Tips can vary greatly and for a great variety of reasons. On the whole it is the ambience of the restaurant that determines the tone of the service. Wait staff in Dennys know they will make less in tips than they would at Le Tres Expensive Steak Place down the road but in general they will be friendly and do their jobs capably just as the staff in the steak place will but with a different tone. The performance of the wait staff will harmonise with whatever atmosphere the restaurant wishes to create and not perceptions of the customers' tipping practices. You are going to get folksy treatment in Dennys and you are going to get a more hushed experience in exclusive eateries.

'I just think that's a horrible attitude towards customers. Level of service should be consistent, consistently good, and not dependant on how much someone perceives you will tip.' Level of service really doesn't depend on assumptions.

Same with the situation where they give you your bill whether or not you are ready to leave or not. They have just spent all that time being faux cheerful and interested in you, but they can't wait to get rid of you because they want the next tip.

I really don't understand why there is this perception of being faux cheerful. I don't understand why the business transaction aspect of eating out is missed by diners. Are you so unused to people having a positive, cheerful demeanour that you mistake cheerful service with someone being interested in you ? They want feedback about your meal so that they can do their job and bring you exactly the meal you have in mind. They make light conversation about your holiday because it is polite and your accent is something to chat about. They assume you have plans for the rest of the night when your meal is eaten. It's not that they are getting rid of you and it was all a sham designed to extract your money from you under false pretences. Yes, the table will be prepped for the next customers and they will earn the next tip -- the fact that this is taken personally as some sort of insult is really odd imo.

I can't understand how there is a problem with being presented with a bill by a smiling individual. You know how much your meal cost. You know you ate it. Would you prefer an apology along with your bill? Or a glum face? There is the assumption that you are cheerfully spending your money in the US if you go out to eat.

If you are not ready to leave all you have to do is say you are not ready to leave just like Americans do. You can order a coffee or a dessert and cheerfully spend more money. British reticence makes for a lot of miscommunication.

And the worst customer service of all is to be found on any US airline. Oldest grumpiest slowest staff in the world on the longest haul routes where you actually need them to do something, like bring the meal you paid for and then they wonder why you might want more than one tiny bottle of wine with a meal and despite them having the apron god forbid you ask them to actually open the carbonated drinks like their own training tells them to do so. Fly AA once and then never again

I think maybe the thing about lingering in restaurants comes down to the conceit that money doesn't matter -- this is a very British and European thing.

In the US everyone acknowledges their shared feeling that money does indeed matter and they show their respect for this proposition by paying up and leaving once they are finished eating -- acknowledging the restaurateur's legitimate business interest in his hospitality and the money-making potential of their table.

Sorry Novack i meant the 2 times when we had our bill brought to us whilst eating was in Rome in August. The other times of being told the place is closing have been in the 3 cities at other times of the year (Feb and Nov - when it's been birthday trips).

What to Americans do after supper at 11 or 12 before a club would be getting busy after a meal. What meal do they serve at that time once we leave?? Genuinley if you can answer that I'd be iterested

Now Airline Service I WILL agree with... Dreadful, dreadful, dreadful.

AA have been one of the better US airlines I've flown with though! Try US Airways. shudders

mathanxiety yes Americans do that in America. As soon as they live for some time in Europe, they are more than happy to chill out in cafes and restaurants. And they tend to love it

Well I'd be surprised in Barca or Madrid as we don't go out until 9.30 10 or so for dinner in summer.

And yes i KNOW it's the hols in Rome that's why i caveated that particular point, but we had to be there then. And i do expect if a restaurant is open then it can at least try with a bit of customer service - these were decent restaurants too. Otherwise just close for the hols.

No wonder Gordon Ramsay and Marco Pierre White are having to sort out their nightmares in the US.

Spuddy do you think it had to do with being particular touristy spots? I have also received terrible service in Paris or Venice when too close to what would be typically frequented by tourists.

Yes i was surprised too Novack - it's not the norm but it has happened. We also have had it in Greece a lot recently, where once you could be sitting there till the wee hours we have been told they are closing up at midnight.

Probably world also in Rome a lot of the waiters would put their name and number on the bill and ask me to call them! All a bit close to the Trevi fountain i think . They kept calling me 'American lady' too - no idea why.

spuddy

You don't want to know why they did that. It was not a complement.

Novack -- after 11 or 12 they close and clean up for a few hours; in some places they then divide the tips between the wait staff and bus staff, and they go home.

i think the honesty in the US about money is quite refreshing. This European/British pretending we aren't interested in it is so ludicrous. I don't think the cheery customer service is fake, i think it's genuine...they really do genuinely want a tip!

I had a job for 3 years asking rich people for money (i dealt with art donations over 100k for a national gallery) and the coy way we had to ask Brits was ridiculous. Keep inviting them to events and schmoozing and they would pretend they had no idea why they were there, eventually about 6 month down the line you may say something about a new exhibition needing funding and they would act all shocked and often say no, even tho they had milked the free hospitality for all that time. Or worse say they'd donate, but they really needed a space to throw a party etc and wait for you to offer all the facilities for free then decide they didn't actually want to give any money anyway.

The Americans we 'cultivated' didn't play this bullshit, on the first invitation they would quite happily say 'right how much do you want...?'

My experience of Rome was definitely that the touristy area restaurants weren't the best by a long shot.

And the phone number thing doesn't surprise me in the slightest. Our flight to Rome was odd. There was barely a woman on the flight and those that were were British. I remember commenting to DH during the holiday about the sheer lack of any woman aged 25 - 40 on the streets day or night. No idea why, but it was noticable enough to pass comment on several occasions.

Spuddy but you can't give all Brits the same name as those few millionaires who are asked to subsidise the arts! An average family out for a meal expects good service and a tip should be up to them.

Yes Novack I kind of worked that one out i was joking! I think being 3 women alone in Rome was a bit of a giveaway. Altho on a separate note we were surprised at how odd they were to women not accompanied by men. Having thought of it as a cosmopolitan city, we were taken aback by their sexual attitude to us. We weren't dressed provocatively or anything but i was followed into a toilet by a bloke, spat at in my hair when i turned a guy in a bar down, we were followed back to our hotel, clicked at in the street and generally harassed. I actually found it worse than egypt and morocco.

No NC, I am using it as an anecdote to show the cultural differences to pretending you don't want money. In comparison to those saying the waiters in the states are fake because they make it obvious they want money, and in the UK we are expected to pretend being paid was just a nice surprise.

So yo are expected to wolf down your meal then go. You see we europeans go out to eat and socialise to chat with our friends over wine then drinks whereas I generally get the impression that having sat in US restaurants the american clientele are their to wolf down their food with terrible table manners with their heads so close to the plate you wouldn't hear what they had to say anyway and they will wolf whatever they ordered down with cola so basically every thing must taste of caramelised sugar to them.

Any restaurateur will tell you the real profit is in the wine and drinks and yes we may have only a coffee and a glass of tap water at 6 but then by 9 we will be on to the wine and tapas and from midnight till 3 or 4 if not dawn in the summer we will be on gin and tonics at 9 euro and that would all be into the one till when we leave if only they showed some customer service. But no The US restaurants send us out right after the main course so they lose out.

You see the countries that didn't do as the Romans do when the Romans came a visiting stayed as barbarians.