About tipping in America

[AnnaLiza]

I was in LA last week and decided to get a haircut so I went to a salon near the hotel which had good reviews. The owner was the sole hairdresser and did a decent job at cutting my hair but it was by no means the best haircut I've ever had. Anyway, when I was paying ($85) his secretary asked "so are you leaving a tip for Nico today?". I must have gone purple as I was not expecting that...I then said "I don't think it's necessary" and hurried out as quick as I could, feeling like the meanest person ever, which I'm not at all.
I can just about undertstand tipping the waiter when there's no national minimum and they rely on tips for a living...but what's the justification for asking for a tip when you're a professional who charges $85 for a haircut? I find it very rude to be asked for money and then made to feel like shit for not forking out more. If you think $85 is not enough then just charge more and let people decide if they want to pay for your services.
Am I missing something?

Interesting discussion. Just had a google, this is the official state of pay and as you can see, varies from state to state. Some states do not allow tipped credit.

www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm

But in an American context you are not paying extra. You are not paying twice. It is part of the price, it's just discretionary.

I think you either respect local customs or you don't, it shouldn't matter whether they come with a cost or not.

I've been in countries where if you go to the market, locals pay one price, foreigners pay another. That's just how it is. I wouldn't refuse to pay the foreigner price.

You also have to factor the cost of living in each State. The cost of living in LA is higher than some other parts of California, and California has one of the highest costs of living and rates of taxation going. Then you compare that with some other states - even though the minimum wage is guaranteed it still doesn't necessarily mean they are better off than some people who live in other states where there are different laws and they don't rely on that tip.

dreaming I should have explained correctly - I was making a comparison between UK service industries and their differences wrt tipping/not tipping.

For the record I agree with you re US tipping policy.

If it was part of the price you could be arrested for theft for not paying a tip.

Has that ever happened? (genuine, not sarky question)

Spuddybean - I think your Canada story illustrates a lot of the issue perfectly. A lot of the time, people are happy to give a tip if they feel it is deserved, or even if they feel it isn't necessarily deserved but is the done thing. What is the frustrating/annoying thing is the EXPECTATION of a tip and then the potential challenge if you don't tip - or the automatic keeping of change when you'd have liked the opportunity to have that change back and then present SOME as a tip.
ps - also in DC so PM me if you want any advice re your move!

BTW - I do like the idea of a tiny tip for appalling service when you don't want to look like you've forgotten but are dissatisfied. Hadn't heard of that until this thread.

I do hate that whole keeping change thing - you should always be given back your change so you can decide how much to tip.

Also find it annoying in the US when people go oh its just a dollar, well yes that's right but all those just a dollars add up over the course of the day. I find superfluous service requiring tipping particularly annoying. In Las Vegas outside the hotel was a taxi rank with taxis ready and waiting to take you to your destination, but for no reason there was an additional man who spoke to you to find out where you wanted to go said this to the taxi driver ( which you then had to repeat when inside anyway) and opened the door and we had to pay a dollar for that. Different for wait staff as they are performing a genuine service.

NapaCab yes...those people in the supermarket offer to do it but you don't take them up on it if you're not tipping.

Oh sorry VonHerr, it's true I can't explain that difference in a UK context!

Outraged, it is unofficially not legally part of the price. Is it so weird to do things just because they are customary and not required? There's no law saying you have to stand to the right on escalators but people do it (and get yelled at if they don't!)

If you try not to pay a tip that has been added on to the bill for example, for large groups then yes you are dodging your bill and a restaurant could call the police.

I used to be a meeter/greeter in a VERY smart restaurant in London...my hourly wage was £2.00 because I was tipped 10, 20 and even 50 pounds a time by many diners.

All I did was say "HI! You look FABULOUS! Come in, come in!"

They made me say that.

dreaming but WHO added the tip??? If it's the manager then you can refuse to pay that part as a tip is discretionary.

What you North American Mumsnetters don't understand perhaps is the fact that we (Europeans) struggle with the idea that something called a gratuity is compulsory. We feel it's alright to tip but equally alright should be not to tip if you can't afford it or you're not happy with the service, etc.
It's the element of having to pay an unspecified extra amount which is difficult to get used to. If it's compulsory then why is it not added as an upfront cost? If it isn't compulsory then there should be no expectation on people to tip.

but tipping is NOT compulsory here!!

It's totally discretionary...we usually tip 15% for good service. Sometimes more, sometimes less.

Generally service here is excellent. Maybe that's the big diff. Service in UK was terrible in comparison (Mum always comments on it when she visits)

shit service = shit tip. And yes we have left a 5 cent tip to a really rubbish waitress before now (clearly hungover and sat with her mates all the time in the bar leaving us way too long with no drinks and got our food wrong twice...)

Is it so wierd to do things because they are customary and not required?

Well, yes, tbh! It is wierd if it's expected and not a choice. Its customary in the UK to give Christmas presents, but if you don't you don't risk being shouted at or accused of stopping someone from being able to feed their children. It is wierd to be expected to pay for service when you have received very little or cap service.

Sorry, it's just not a concept I can really get my head round. I'm too British!

Service in the US is crap. It's in your face fake smiles and acting like they're some long lost friend, non stop hovering around, trying to be all matey and they even find them asking you how your meal is before you've had a bite half the time and if you do have a question about a menu item they invariable cannot answer it as you doubt they bothered to speak to the chef that night.

Novack: you didn't give Americans their independence, they took it from you because you lost the War of Independence by being crap. The old British Empire didn't work so well against well-armed people of European descent, did it? Much easier to kill off a lot of people in developing countries with no access to modern weaponry...

Anyway, every country has its customs and just because it's the USA, it doesn't give British people or anyone the right to dismiss it or disrespect it. A lot of Europeans seem to think that because the US is a powerful country, their customs / culture can be insulted and made a joke of because it's not a proper culture or something. That's just as ignorant as Americans who come to Europe and think Paris is the capital and everybody walks around naked while reading The Communist Manifesto. I'm not American but I live here so I try to respect the culture and integrate as well as I would when I lived in the UK, Germany or anywhere else.

I get it perfectly.

We do get it here too. If I buy tickets for a gig I get charged a service fee and a postage fee. On occasion I've been charged postage fees for box office collection!

If you go to IKEA you get charge if you use your credit card.

If you book flights...

If you buy most things in the supermarket in the States the price you see on the shelf is without tax. When you get to the til you pay the tax. You could argue that way you see what you are paying in tax better than if its all included like in the UK. You do get used to it very quickly.

I think I view it in the States that you buy your food in a restaurant separately from your service. So even though its not in the bill, its still something that should be paid for - and you have more flexibility than if its included in the bill.

Incidentally, it does nark me are when service charges are automatically added to bills in the UK (I always tip at a restaurant so don't like feeling like I've been tricked into tipping twice). DH has complained about this in the past, had the service charge removed and then not tipped as a result.

As long as you know the system and you aren't being mislead I don't see the problem.

NovackNGood Fri 31-Aug-12 16:32:30
Service in the US is crap. It's in your face fake smiles and acting like they're some long lost friend, non stop hovering around, trying to be all matey and they even find them asking you how your meal is before you've had a bite half the time and if you do have a question about a menu item they invariable cannot answer it as you doubt they bothered to speak to the chef that night.

Actually I've had amazing service in the US. Really nice people, who have gone out of their way to give local tips, been really knowledgable about the food, know exactly when to attend to you and when NOT to attend to you...

I've had shit service too. But then the same is true of the UK.

Generalising like that is rather reflective of your negative attitude to the US tbh. I can't help but wonder why you've had shit service and whether perhaps your own demeanour and lack of wanting to get to know the local customs etc might be affecting it.

Just a thought.

Actually your right it was the Spanish and French who beat the British in colonies during the war of Independance whilst we were fighting and winning on three fronts on europe which is why when we burnt your capital to the ground in 1814 you didn't manage to take any of Canada from us and just had to lump it.

hmm except you're not buying a service separately, really. If you were, the service would have a set price and would not be left to the customer to decide how much to value that service.

The service for carrying a late should be the same no matter what is on the plate. The amount of minimal, unskilled work down to carry a late from the kitchen to the table should be the same no matter what.

Waiter has 4 tables then fine call it 2 dollars 50 a table. It¡s the bonkers oh you spend 200 dollars so that will be 40 dollars for carrying the plates for a couple of minutes work, mentality that is stupid.

And I also agree that service in the US is pretty crap too.
Example: posh restaurant, waitress asks "how was your day so far?". Stops by every 5 minutes to ask if everything is alright. Then she notices you've finished you're in course. She clears the table and asks if you want dessert. Incidentally you do want dessert but perhaps not just yet...perhaps you want to enjoy the conversation with your friends a bit longer...Hang on, what is that on the table? It's a bill and you're strongly encouraged to move on if you haven't ordered something else SWIFTLY.
Is that good service??

Can I add that I think Americans in general are lovely and much more friendly than the British. However, smiling and asking "how was your day" doesn't cut it for me.