About tipping in America

[AnnaLiza]

I was in LA last week and decided to get a haircut so I went to a salon near the hotel which had good reviews. The owner was the sole hairdresser and did a decent job at cutting my hair but it was by no means the best haircut I've ever had. Anyway, when I was paying ($85) his secretary asked "so are you leaving a tip for Nico today?". I must have gone purple as I was not expecting that...I then said "I don't think it's necessary" and hurried out as quick as I could, feeling like the meanest person ever, which I'm not at all.
I can just about undertstand tipping the waiter when there's no national minimum and they rely on tips for a living...but what's the justification for asking for a tip when you're a professional who charges $85 for a haircut? I find it very rude to be asked for money and then made to feel like shit for not forking out more. If you think $85 is not enough then just charge more and let people decide if they want to pay for your services.
Am I missing something?

As much as I agree with the 'when in Rome' thing, I think anyone who has already paid once for a service is entitled to complain that they are expected to pay again for exactly the same thing.

If I have paid for something in America, it makes no difference whether I'm British, Russian or Cantonese. My money is the same. I have paid for a service and I shouldn't have to pay again.

Your missing the point. You haven't paid for that service. Its just that the price on the tag isn't the one you are expected to pay. Its exactly the same as haggling in reverse as people have pointed out previously.

There is a minimum wage in the USA as in the UK so they are being paid.

I disagree that you haven't paid for that service.

Like the taxi example a few pages back. If you are told a journey will cost $80, then the journey costs $80. A tip is an added extra, that is not related to how much it costs to pay the taxi driver a wage or how much it costs to run his taxi. If the tip is related to those things, then it shudo be added into the original quote.

You are free to give as big a tip as you want. If you want to give a 50% tip, no one in the US is going to give it back and tell you that their service wasnt worth that much and only accept 15% instead. They can't have it both ways.

And if you haven't already paid for it, then why aren't things significantly cheaper?

Novack, someone up thread has already explained that the minimum wage for waiters etc is lower than the general population because it is expected to be topped up by tips. Also she pointed out that her 'official' wage went entirely on tax and social security so her take home pay was ZERO without tips. Tips. Were. Her. Only. Income.

I tip in restaurants if the service has been really exceptional but in general tipping baffles me. The price of something is the price. Why pay more? If you think your service is worth more, charge more!

Why tip a hairdresser for something you've paid them to do already?? Baffling.

Have just moved to the US so watching this with interest. I think in some cases, we've actually been 'over tipping' so as not to appear stingy - and this is galling when service standards vary so much. From what we've experienced, there's the same expectation of a tip regardless of the standard of service offered...

The thing I find interesting is when we went to the US embassy to get our visas, they made a huge thing of the Wilberforce Act and how no one should be exploited in the workplace - but surely that's what this is. Why no minimum wage for service staff? There is so much money here, so much it's untrue - but then so much (argueably unnecessary) poverty. A living wage for all and tips on top shouldn't be beyond the wit of man.

That said, we've chosen to be here and will continue to tip as that's the local custom - as mentioned earlier, when in Rome etc... However, having grown up in the UK, it doesn't sit easily when you feel you're paying twice.

Quick question - we didn't tip the removal company guys who delivered our UK shipment as we'd already paid the best part of £6000 and it was late, meaning we spent a week with literally nothing apart from pans and plates I begged and borrowed. Should we have done? It wasn't their fault but we were dissatisfied with the company as a whole... Also - should we tip supermarket delivery people? We would be paying a delivery charge so do we need to pay on top? I genuinely don't know - though am sure will get used to things over the next few years.

And. The minimum wage is far less here in Spain and costs are higher than in the US and nobody here expects a tip for doing their job.

Trazzle, your post is correct and it's wrong that the system works like that, but it is not the fault of the customer who has already paid a fair price for what they have received.

That's what I'm objecting to. I'm being told that I'm wrong for not wanting to tip in the US because that is the custom, but I'm as certain as I can be that it's not me that's wrong, therefore it's not me that deserves abuse from a waiter if I decide not to tip. I can't be blamed for the fact that a company isn't paying its employees properly.

My neice, 18, works at a high street clothing retailer. She's at university and is grateful for the shit pay and shit shifts. She spent 2 hours with some similar aged girls yesterday putting together a holiday wardrobe.

Nobody would bat an eyelid that she wasn't tipped, why is that?

Okay sure, Outraged, 300 million Americans believe in tipping but they're all wrong and you're right

VonHerr, in the US, it would be because even your niece's shitty pay would be at least double a waiter's formal pay (which as I explained, they don't even get in reality).

Sorry Outraged, I was explaining to Novack who said they were being paid a minimum wage. They aren't. They're being paid nothing except tips. Novack, are your Spanish waiters going home with no money? Didn't think so...

I also think its a ridiculous system, and I've mentioned above the behaviour I experienced the one time I forgot! I don't expect anyone to treat me like that. However, that's how it happens there. It's not the fault of the waiting staff that they are being exploited.

No the minimum wage in Spain is not less than what those waiters get. Minumum wage in Spain is 748.30 eur per month, that would be 942 USD. Weekly average working hours - 38.

Federal minimum wage for tipped employees in the US is USD 2.13 per hour (additional deductions are permitted, for example for meals). Working 38 hours per week, the monthly wage would be 323 USD or whopping 256 EUR.

Why would 300 million Americans believe in a system that could see some hardworking employees actually having to pay to work? That could mean that people spend a day at work but don't have any customers so they don't earn a single penny? Or cent, as the case may be.

Tbh, we are talking about a population that doesn't believe in healthcare being available to everyone that needs it, so I'm fairly comfortable in feeling that I'm right about this one.

Having worked in the US as a waitress, it is so standard that you earn at least 15% tip on every bill, that in the place I worked my INCOME TAX was calculated by each bill. As in, if you served a table, you checked into the restaurant system with your own code, and that shared details of the bill with the IRS.
In a way, the restaurant 'lets' you work there, and then your income is the tips you earn. Your pay from the restaurant just about covers social security.
It is weird and annoying, but you must tip at least 15%.

SO basically, if you go to a restaurant in the USA, you absolutely must add 15% to the price of the food. Anything beyond that is the real tip in a way - as in beyond the expected and TAXED income of the staff.

When we were in Canada in March we took a taxi. It came to $32 and DP gave $40. I got out and DP waited for change. The driver kept saying the him 'you're here' and DP was looking at him expectantly for change. This went on for a bit and i could see the driver had no idea why DP hadn't pissed off out of the cab and DP couldn't understand why he hadn't been offered change.

I found this rather amusing. Eventually (after what seemed like ages) DP said 'i want my change mate'. The driver looked so incredulous, as did DP. The thing is DP would have given $5 as a tip but it was the fact the driver just assumed the change was his tip which pissed DP off, so the driver got nothing. Neither looked happy.

What i want to know is would the economy/restaurant just rather people didn't eat out if they couldn't afford to tip?

As once 20% is added it may be too much. So would they rather get 10% or less customers?

Also i eat out loads here and find that only in big cities is it normal to tip so much. If DP and I tip 10% in some provincial restaurants we almost get kissed on the way out (especially in MK!).

I have worked in quite a few pubs too (in London) and it is the norm to say 'and one for yourself' - Usually after about 3 rounds of drinks have been served (never had it on the first round). However, all the pubs insisted i took it as a drink rather than the cash - as they still made money on me (a glass of wine costs then less than £4 to the landlord). Also if the drinks are expensive and you only drink wine you feel horribly cheeky saying 'thanks i'll have a wine' and adding £4 - i have had people say 'what?' and change their minds. So i would usually ask for a half of the cheapest lager, then on my days off take mates there for a drink - but i ended up just giving my wages back to the landlord as i would buy wines for me and also you don't want to spend your only night off at work.

I'm not sure why every one is so up in arms about this? It's the way it goes in the US and Canada. On NA boards I don't see people moaning on and on about UK customs and habits, we just assume it's how you do business and we expect to do so when we visit too.

I find it ironic that on other bash USA theads there's moaning about the spreading "homogenization" of American culture, well, look! Here's something you don't have and won't have, its a distinction! Yay! be happy!

I like that when I visit other places it's not like home. That is what makes visiting fun!

You all sound like a bunch of 1950 Americans, TBH.

I have just asked my American Auntie and she said tat there is a minimum wage like the UK, it's around 9 dollars per hour. When I was in the states we tipped when we went out to eat, and the hotel cleaners but not bar staff, what fr pouring a drink

Piglet it depends on the city and state you're in.

Outraged, it doesn't matter why they believe in tipping, what matters is that that's what they believe. If you don't, fine, I agree it's a crazy system and probably not for the best. But do you really go around the world ignoring what countries do because you think you know better?

Can I also, on behalf of my fellow waiters, thank all of you who go to the US and tip -- it's really nice of you, and we do all really appreciate non-Americans who make that effort. If I could I'd give you all a drink on the house

Of course I don't, and I happen to love being in America.

I think there is a difference in following customs and having to pay extra for following customs.

I'd be rude to complain about going to Spain and not being able to shop at 1pm because everyone's having a siesta, but I think I'm within my rights to have a little moan about being forced to pay twice for the same thing or risk having someone be verbally abusive to me.

I'd also like to thank the non-americans who tip; purely because I am less likely to get a really shitty arsey useless waiter because they disprove the stingy stereotype.

And I kinda like halfway decent service.