Boris wants your children

[Sparrowp]

Boris wants your children for the gulags.

He wants to punish teach them skills of rock-breaking and oakum picking!

Bring your children to build the great nation!

Even if they have studied hard at school, achieved their expensive degree, and volunteer ten times a day, they must not expect payment until they get experience are working get paid.

At the press conference, Boris, with one arm oddly twisted behind his back, confirmed that it was a tough job market, and employers were crying out for prisoners free labour something for nothing work experience.

They say that Hitler was very charismatic.

You won't see anything with your head so firmly in the sand dear.

Do you think the majority of young people are workshy? I think a proper job creation scheme - one that offered proper long-term paid opportunities - is actually sustainable. You think workfare schemes are 'sustainable?'

I have no idea, and nor do you.

Workfare is simply work experience at an older age. If it's such a bad idea why is work experience so widely administered at secondary school age.

Countless reports have stated that many people of this age group lack the basic social skills to function in the workplace. If this scheme can even help improve that it's achieved something.

'And yet the fact that finally the government is getting progress in reducing the households who have never had a worker in them is bad in your mind'

You have just skipped all the other posts? The links that show that the DWP itself says the scheme hasn't had any positive impact on getting people into work? The fact that free labour undermines the people currently working for those companies and turns their living wages into part time jobs pushing them into poverty? The impact on the creation of new jobs, the same permanent jobs these people are supposed to be looking for?

Its funny that so many people developed "bad attitudes" at the exact same time as the banking crisis.

"a proper job creation scheme - one that offered proper long-term paid opportunities - is actually sustainable."
This type of scheme has been shown to be the most effective to getting people back into the workforce.

"need to learn that hard work will be rewarding socially and monetary for them."
Yes. Work needs to be financially rewarding.

Foodbanks - These make me sick. They also create malnutrition problems.

So foodbanks create malnutrition now. You do just seem to rant.

Where do you think these hours of work that the 'volunteers' will do are coming from?

Seriously, where? Do you think that there were empty shelves in Tesco and boxes and boxes of stock piling up in the back before Workfare came in? Do you think that Superdrug was full of people, haggard and moaning, having waited 4 days to buy a lipstick? Businesses need X number of man hours a week. If you give them to one group you are taking them from another. Obviously new stores open and places expand, but not at a rate to keep up with an influx of new, free staff.

So what you are saying is you want everyone to stop volunteering for the red cross, St Johns ambulance, cancer research shops, riding for the disabled etc so that their shelf stacking, first aid services, one to one lessons are charged to the families at a market rate. You sound like a nice person.

tiggytape

the age group this refers to is 18-24 fyi nmw for a 18-21 year old is £4.98 ph and 21 upwards is £6.08

for anybody else who is intrested a 16-18 year old is £3.68 an hour

also the hourly rate for a apprentice under 19 or over 19 in the first year is £2.60.

im fairly intrested in how this will impact on an apprentice or 16 year old with a job as its fairly adventatious to employ them over an over 21 but stuff like this means that its less adventatious than employing a benefit claiment. would it have a ripple effect making more benefit claiments who may not have made enough tax contributions due to having a nmw job because its easyer to employ several nmw employees for shifts and a total employee weekly hours no higher than 17 and a half than it is to employee less people at more hours each.

Exactly narkedstrawberry!

It appeals to a very basic desire to see those who could work and deliberately choose not to pushed into working. And there are some people like that. A tiny minority, nowhere near the numbers that the Daily Mail would have you think, but some.

The DWP itself has said that the scheme isn't effective at getting that group into work. The vast majority of those who will take part in the scheme - and I'd expect 99.9% of those who actually complete the 13 weeks won't be those people of the plasma screens and Daily Mail fame. They'll be the ordinary young people who do want a job and were already looking for one.

They will include eg DC back from uni who are looking for vacancies in a specific area that the 'experience' will be of no benefit to - remember the student who was stopped from doing volunteer work in a museum that was giving her relevant job experience and sent to work for Superdrug instead? The people for whom the experience is relevant will find it harder to get a job because the companies they would once have applied to are now to get free labour and don't need to hire in the same numbers anymore.

If the work experience is with charities rather than the likes of Tesco then I think it seems really positive - a good way of improving self esteem and getting experience.

I was unemployed 2 years ago after graduation and voluntarily signed up for such a scheme run by a local community group which set me up with voluntary work with a charity. I did 8 weeks of stuffing envelopes and photocopying. Towards the end the charity asked me if I wanted to gain any more specific skills and gave me some training on some software used by a lot of other charities. It led to me getting my first 'grown up' job as an administrator with another charity.

'So what you are saying is you want everyone to stop volunteering for the red cross, St Johns ambulance, cancer research shops, riding for the disabled etc so that their shelf stacking, first aid services, one to one lessons are charged to the families at a market rate. You sound like a nice person.'

Volunteer charity work = good.

Being forced to work for Tesco for free = bad

Volunteer charity stuff is great Flibberigibbert. True charity work that isn't just increasing the profits of a company by offering free labour. Under the workfare scheme you may well have been sent to Tesco.

I have no idea, and nor do you

Actually Sparks the article in the OP says:
"One, the mandatory work activity scheme, which lasts for a month, was found by the DWP to have zero effect on chances of landing a job. It also had no effect in getting people off benefits over a six-month period and led to a small increase in those claiming sickness support payments." I guess that means it is NOT effective or sustainable. Evidence shows that these schemes DON'T work.

How you can compare workfare to the two weeks' voluntary work placements that teenagers can do (if they want) is beyond me. My daughter did a work placement in July. Her careers officer worked very hard to find a placement in an industry she was interested in entering, which wasn't shelf-stacking in Tesco or Superdrug funnily enough, and there were no repercussions to her not doing it.

I think this is hilarious. When I was unemployed in the 80's the Tories wouldn't let me volunteer as much as I wanted because I wasn't 'available for work'. Even though the place I volunteered ended up being my first paid job in adulthood. Now they want to force people to 'volunteer'.

Will this new scheme work - no. Because the people forced into it won't end up working there. I wanted work in homelessness/charities. If you don't, what is the point?

So what you are saying is you want everyone to stop volunteering for the red cross, St Johns ambulance, cancer research shops, riding for the disabled etc so that their shelf stacking, first aid services, one to one lessons are charged to the families at a market rate. You sound like a nice person.

Fuck me. How obtuse.

Being forced to work for Tesco for free = bad

Who's being forced?

Er, did you read the articlr linked in the OP? Tesco is a guess based on previous government efforts. Feel free to substitute 'Oakford Nursing Home' etc.

Last time Holland&Barrett was included, so maybe a juice bar for providing the community with vitamins?

The article certainly looked like a load of guesswork and mis-sinformation.

Tiggytape - I trained as a teacher, I volunteered one day a week at a primary school to aid my application for a PGCE. This was completely different to people who are being coerced into 'volunteering' under threat of losing their benefits. I chose to volunteer as a way of aiding my career, I definitely benefitted from the arrangement. If I didn't think it was necessary for the course then I doubt I would have volunteered, I certainly didn't have a lot of time on my hands on top of my degree course and part time job.

For someone without my advantage, facing a dire economic climate and little prospects in training or education one of the few types of capital they have to offer is the time and effort they can put into work. To say as an organisation that this is worthless is dehumanising.

They are not going to further their job prospects significantly through 13 weeks unpaid placement its just an excuse for free labour, the companies taking advantage of this are benefitting far more than the worker in that they reduce their overtime bill significantly - therefore it is exploitation.

Er, did you read the articlr linked in the OP? Tesco is a guess based on previous government efforts. Feel free to substitute 'Oakford Nursing Home' etc.

Sorry?

So again, who is being forced to work for free?

'The pilot will start by helping around 6,000 Londoners who make a new Jobseeker?s Allowance claim with little or no work history with 30 hours of work experience a week for a 13-week period. Placements will be carried out in a wide range of sectors including charities, social enterprises and voluntary organisations. All placements are expressly required to deliver clear benefits to the communities in which people taking part in the project live.

Placements, contracted out to providers, will include a targeted package of support, such as CV writing and interview skills, to help people boost their employability in an increasingly competitive jobs market. The trial will be contracted in the next few weeks and will start later this year.'

'Referral to the trial will take place as soon as someone signs on for Jobseeker's Allowance. If they do not participate without good reason, that claim will be discontinued and they will not receive benefits.'

From the DWP website. Better?

Seems fair enough.