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Original poster

Boris wants your children

179 replies

Sparrowp · 29/08/2012 15:16

Boris wants your children for the gulags.

He wants to punish teach them skills of rock-breaking and oakum picking!

Bring your children to build the great nation!

Even if they have studied hard at school, achieved their expensive degree, and volunteer ten times a day, they must not expect payment until they get experience are working get paid.

At the press conference, Boris, with one arm oddly twisted behind his back, confirmed that it was a tough job market, and employers were crying out for prisoners free labour something for nothing work experience.

OP posts:
NarkedRaspberry · 29/08/2012 17:24

Do you understand the minimum wage Tiggytape?

It's £6.08 for those 21 or over
It's £4.98 for 18 to 20 year olds
It's £3.68 for those 16/17 who are over school leaving age
It's £2.60 for apprentices under 19 or 19 or over and in the first year of their apprenticeship

carernotasaint · 29/08/2012 17:25

I REPEAT

sooo all these people who all have the SAME experience on their CVS will ALL end up employed while the next crop of young people are working for no wage to get the SAME "experience" from the same places that the last lot got!
Yeah i can really see that it will work and be a roaring success

NovackNGood · 29/08/2012 17:26

Well fortunately the conservatives are turning those families around and now the number of families where nobody has never worked are starting to fall for the first time in a decade with labour and their lack of care.

lovebunny · 29/08/2012 17:27

the shape of things to come.

Glitterknickaz · 29/08/2012 17:27

It's workfare. Still workfare.
A friend of mine's son left school this year and is working on the checkouts at Tesco. Which is fine, but then all of a sudden there was zero overtime available and he was back down to the 10 hours a week he was doing whilst at school (what he was contracted to do in other words). So he's in employment, yes, but only working 10 hours a week.

The reason why is because the workfarers are doing all the checkout overtime to save Tesco money. And why not, at 5 hours' training that means a hell of a lot of free labour for Tesco.

This is costing real jobs, I have seen it happen in real life.

I'd agree with the scheme if the participants were paid the same rate as others that work in the businesses, or if their benefits were made up to reflect the proper wage rate of the businesses involved. Tesco do not pay £63 a week for 37.5 hours.

tiggytape · 29/08/2012 17:29

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

NarkedRaspberry · 29/08/2012 17:30

And from October 1st they'll be:

£6.19 for workers aged 21 and over
£4.98 the 18-20 rate
£3.68 for those 16-17 above school leaving age
£2.65 for apprentices under 19 or 19 or over and in the first year of their apprenticeship

In other words, apprentices under 19/in their first year get 5p extra an hour, those over 21 get 8p extra an hour and those 16-20 get the same. Because it's not like the cost of living has gone up in the last year is it???

carernotasaint · 29/08/2012 17:30

sunflowers if you think your children wont resent you for the attitude that you dont think your own children are worth a wage then you prob wont see that resentment until its too late.

carernotasaint · 29/08/2012 17:31

I REPEAT

sooo all these people who all have the SAME experience on their CVS will ALL end up employed while the next crop of young people are working for no wage to get the SAME "experience" from the same places that the last lot got!
Yeah i can really see that it will work and be a roaring success

carernotasaint · 29/08/2012 17:35

tiggytapeWed 29-Aug-12 17:29:08

Plenty of people work for no wage for the good of their long term prospects.
If any of your children ever want to go into medicine for example they'll need to volunteer at a hospital and / or care home for months and months to be accepted onto the course no matter how many A*'s they achieve.
Ditto teaching. You cannot even apply for your PGCE at most unis unless you either work in childcare already or spend at least one day a week volunteering at a local school and do this for some time.
Those are called internships (posh workfare) and the reason that they can afford to do that is because they have parents that can afford to subsidize them.
What about the young people that have just come out of the care system who have nothing and nobody.
And then someone comes along and decides to punish them further by handing them out as free labour.

Original poster
Sparrowp · 29/08/2012 17:36

Yes yes! Arbeit will macht them frei!

Hitler, revived by the feeling of finally being justified, sat up and saluted "heil Boris!"

In response, Boris parted his hair into a jaunty side parting.

OP posts:
NovackNGood · 29/08/2012 17:40

Plenty of peopel have come out of the care system and done rather well. It's about attitude. Those who have the right attitude to get on with things not expecting handouts all the time go full out to make something of themselves. Those who expect the social to give them their every desire end to do less well and need to learn that hard work will be rewarding socially and monetary for them.

NarkedRaspberry · 29/08/2012 17:43

Ludicrous comparisons. Experience is relevant for teaching and eg veterinary degrees. It is not useful for shelf stacking.

'A friend of mine's son left school this year and is working on the checkouts at Tesco. Which is fine, but then all of a sudden there was zero overtime available and he was back down to the 10 hours a week he was doing whilst at school (what he was contracted to do in other words). So he's in employment, yes, but only working 10 hours a week.'

'The reason why is because the workfarers are doing all the checkout overtime to save Tesco money. And why not, at 5 hours' training that means a hell of a lot of free labour for Tesco.'

That's exactly what I've been saying Glitterknickaz. The 'experience' schemes actually take away exactly the kind of paying job opportunities that many of the people on them are looking for! And they take hours from people who already work there. It is very common in lots of the areas of work that these schemes target for people who work full time to have a contract that only guarantees eg 12 hours a week. The reality is that they'll work 35+.

There was a link on here recently about a call centre in Wales that's having workers shipped in from a nearby prison, at hugely reduced pay rates, and purely coincidentally laying off paid staff. The fact that care homes are going to be using these volunteers is very worrying. A lot of care homes use agency staff - people who might do 30+ hours a week in the same place or two for months at a time, but obviously have no job security. I'm not talking about registered nurses, but care assistants on just over minimum wage. What's going to happen to them when there's free labour?

Sunnywithachanceofshowers · 29/08/2012 17:44

A large number of charities won't touch this with a barge pole.

I can see this scheme putting more paid workers on benefits. :(

NovackNGood · 29/08/2012 17:45

So you don't use self service checkouts then do you or ATM's as it is taking a job away???

Sparks1 · 29/08/2012 17:48

Not paying someone to work...I'm sure there is a word for it somewhere

And there's a word for paying people to do nothing.

Unsustainable.

NarkedRaspberry · 29/08/2012 17:50

It's not about 'handouts'. It's ideologically driven policy that destroys the jobs it is supposed to help people gain experience for.

Every 'volunteer' gaining 'experience' is taking paying work away from someone. Taking overtime - which is standard in many of these jobs and actually just brings a contract up to full time hours - from people leaves them without a wage. And the rate of new staff being hired drops to a trickle.

twofingerstoGideon · 29/08/2012 17:52

LMAO at ATMs taking a job away. Oh, I remember the good old days when you got a bank teller sitting on a petrol forecourt at midnight waiting to cash a cheque for you.

And I don't use self-service checkouts specifically because they may result in a reduction in jobs, but also because I don't believe a machine gives good customer service/is more efficient.

NarkedRaspberry · 29/08/2012 17:52

Self service tills have taken away some jobs. That's progress and is inevitable. Having to compete for hours against someone being paid nothing is an impossible situation and one deliberately created by the government.

NovackNGood · 29/08/2012 17:56

Having national service did not stop volunteers joining the army. Having choices how to server conscription did not stop countless folks in Spain or France giving time to the red cross bt it did give them two years of extra work from youths allowing the red cross etc. to set up better civil emergency responses that can be at sporting events to beaches to public demonstrations are not at the risk of strikes like the UK fire service. Spain and France are far more socialist than the UK and they accepted these practices

sunflowersfollowthesun · 29/08/2012 17:56

My goodness carer, what a sad opinion you must have of your children if you feel they need to be kept sweet to do the right thing.
Why on earth should they resent me for trying to ensure that they recognize that someone else is paying for them to receive benefits. It's not money for nothing. I see no problem in expecting to do something in return.

NarkedRaspberry · 29/08/2012 17:57

What are they going to do about those in low paid work who lose hours over this? Who work and so can't get help, but don't get enough work to survive? I know! Foodbanks, that Local Authorities will help fund! Getting charities to cover the gap created when people can't earn a living wage.

I've seen this in America. It shames me that it's happening here.

twofingerstoGideon · 29/08/2012 17:59

Not paying someone to work...I'm sure there is a word for it somewhere...And there's a word for paying people to do nothing. Unsustainable.

Do you think the majority of young people are workshy? I think a proper job creation scheme - one that offered proper long-term paid opportunities - is actually sustainable. You think workfare schemes are 'sustainable?'

NarkedRaspberry · 29/08/2012 17:59

National service/ Redcross or Tesco, Superdrug or Care homes (which are privately run for profit businesses. No, can't see any difference there Hmm

NovackNGood · 29/08/2012 18:00

So progress is good. And yet the fact that finally the government is getting progress in reducing the households who have never had a worker in them is bad in your mind.

You know you do seem to just be anti conservative no matter what without actually looking at how effective policies are and who cares whose idea it was. A good policy that is working well is good no matter who introduced it.