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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think that it's completely bonkers to want a large family?

281 replies

slightlystunned · 26/08/2012 21:38

I read a recent thread where a mom is contemplating having a 4th child and the responses were largely (and cautiously) supportive.

If she had asked the same question to someone from my country, she would have been considered a freak.

I come from a country that is struggling with over-population and poverty and a large % of crime and thus a lot of orphans / abandoned children. I am also enough of an environmental nut to realise that 2+ children or 4+ humans per household means more consumption of natural and artificial resources.

And, face it, in the western culture the child leaves home at 18. The rude behavior and ingratitude and f&ck off attitude starts well before that, around 13, 14 years? So I genuinely don't understand why one would sacrifice their best years & money for that relatively short period of time (13+years), to bring up 3+ children, who may or may not stay together, or keep in touch with you, or worse, hurt you. I have lived extensively in US and Europe, and ALL the families I know see their children only during holidays, about once a year. In fact, one of my British-born, Caucasian friends is in deep emotional and financial crisis and none of her 5 siblings have time to spend with her, they are all well off and can help her, but they politely looking the other way while she a single mom is struggling with a day job.

This is not just a one-time observation, even the people in my acquaintances who have good relationship with their siblings or parents do not help out, saying that "I can't be involved, I have my own life to lead". So if large families do not teach other to help each other, what else is the purpose?

In my grandmother's generation, it was common to have 6 or 8 or even 10 children every household. More children was sign of ""manliness" and ""fertility"

In my mother's generation, 2 and 3 were common. 4 was considered slightly overdose.

In my generation, just one or at the most, 2 seems to be enough. And the trend right now in my country is to have one ""womb" child and one "heart" child (adopted). Which is fairly a good idea, considering the number of orphans and destitute children in the world.

So my two questions are: 1. is this what it is in the West - a trend, a statement to say that "I am a domestic goddess" and have a large family? Do people actually realise the social, financial and emotional consequences of having a large family in today's world?

  1. If there is any other valid reason, why this craze to have children from own "blood"? If a person is lucky enough to have financial security and the means to raise another child, why not share it with a child from "outside" who is not so fortunate?

I don't wish to hurt any one, I have been plagued by these questions for many years. I just want some perspective. I am not married, nor do I have children.

OP posts:
Juule · 27/08/2012 09:00

Winegoggles Good post:)

Leena49 · 27/08/2012 09:02

Have 4 have 10 but just don't expect me to fund them through the benefits system.

merrymouse · 27/08/2012 09:05

slightlystunned, I think you have unwittingly chosen to post quite an offensive OP. There are equally people who think ramadan is a bit silly, or can't understand why anybody would support Chelsea football club. However, they might not choose a devoutly muslim/Chelsea supporter's forum to put forward their opinions. (And if they do, they probably get an equally emotional response).

NoLogo · 27/08/2012 09:06

Ditto whatWineGoggles said and CallinDiana.

I can't get angry about what has been said/asked. It is what OP has seen and what is most visible.

The UK isn't perfect, but I am secure enough to be interested and dispassionate when questioned by OP and people like him/her.

I don't "get" large families in general as it's not for me, but I get why my friend has five children with her partner: she really likes it and does it well, in a way that I couldn't. OP is not getting a personal view up close of families like these, to inform her POV, hence the questions. Meh.

I am not offended by what you have seen and summised of the UK so far OP.

Enjoy your time here.

merrymouse · 27/08/2012 09:09

I would refer you back to the US and the many Mormon Mommy lifestyle blogs if you want get a positive spin on large families.

MorrisZapp · 27/08/2012 09:33

I might be wrong but I'm pretty sure Italy has one of the lowest birthrates in the EU?

I was interested in OP, despite the aggressive tone. I too am a large family disapprover. I know it's v unpopular on here but I can't help it.

I'm one of three, and my siblings/ step siblings have large families too. Obviously, I don't wish myself away, and I don't wish any of my wonderful nephews and neices away. But I still don't really get why anybody would have a large family.

On a personal level, I admit that my own lack of broodiness makes it hard for me to understand how others feel about having more kids. I have one, and have found it very hard. I certainly won't be having any more. I can't put myself in another persons shoes and accept maternal drive etc as I don't know what it feels like.

Environmentally, it isn't great, is it? Never mind not flying etc, it's the fact you're bringing more high-consuming westerners into the world, who will have descendants of their own.

I know that mostly, MNers do not share my perspective and I totally accept that. I don't want to try to get people to agree with me. I'm happy to agree to disagree. But those are my views.

hobnobsaremyfavourite · 27/08/2012 09:42

Sitting here with ds1, one of these dreadful british teenaagers. He's just back from his paper round and this week he's volunteering at a holiday club. Also he won't murder his sister in a few years for bringing dishonour to the family. So all in all a good egg.

OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere · 27/08/2012 10:16

It's a bit patronising to talk about high consuming westerners.
Not all Indians live by the roadside.
I would take a fair bet that the op and her privileged lifestyle consumes at least the same as, if not more than my whole family.

Flying is very relevant. It seems ok to be very concerned about the use of resources as long as they are not being used up being a 'traveller' (not a tourist or holidaymaker obviously)
I am not that bothered how the op sees this country, plenty of people have a skewed view of india (including the op, it would seem).

I do get irritated by the misrepresentation of adoption. I don't care who does it, it's annoying.
I have asked questions and the op has ignored them, choosing only to make bizarre comments about trivialities.

PenisVanLesbian · 27/08/2012 10:47

4 families from a country of a billion people is hardly a "trend in your country" is it?

and I don't recognise the kind of families you are talking about. You must know some exceptionally unfriendly and unfamily minded people.

MorrisZapp · 27/08/2012 10:49

I agree mrsd., soon the 'emerging' economies of India and China will be consuming on the same scale that we do. Then we really are screwed! Of course, they have every right to want the same material lifestyle we have.

Flying, recycling etc are all influential. But they are the equivalent of deckchairs on the titanic compared to population growth.

Ismeyes · 27/08/2012 10:50

Wow. Just wow.

I think some of the posters on here should be ashamed of their hateful replies to the OP. Not everyone, and there are some relevant questions/debates but to tell the OP you hope she never has children and she is getting on anyway is spiteful and equally as bigoted.

I'm with morriszapp. I don't understand why the large families debate isn't as fair game as the 'lonely only child' and the righteousness of 'how could you not give your child the gift of a sibling' that gets wheeled out on here.

I don't get large families at all. I'm happy to say each to their own and not request justification from anyone, but it still puzzles me as a choice. In all honesty whilst there are those in RL querying why I don't have another, I'm standing there thinking why did you go on to have 1/2/3/4/5 more.

hobnobsaremyfavourite · 27/08/2012 10:53

This thread i suspect was never meant to be a reasoned debate about family size.

IShallWearMidnight · 27/08/2012 10:54

there's a difference between wanting a debate about small families vs large families, and claiming that Western culture is the root of all evil though, don't you think?

PenisVanLesbian · 27/08/2012 10:55

Large families debate is fair game. But not with the utter nonsense OP is using to start it.

Whats not to get? People like to have several children. How puzzled can you be?

ShellyBoobs · 27/08/2012 10:59

I was interested in OP, despite the aggressive tone. I too am a large family disapprover. I know it's v unpopular on here but I can't help it.

Me too, Morris.

hobnobsaremyfavourite · 27/08/2012 11:00

And there have been loads of anti large families threads on here. Few have been as bizzarely argued as this one.

Juule · 27/08/2012 11:01

"claiming that Western culture is the root of all evil "

Where did the op claim that?

PenisVanLesbian · 27/08/2012 11:02

I can never understand how people can disapprove of the existence of strangers children. Especially for the daft, usually spurious reasons they profess.

OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere · 27/08/2012 11:03

After I wrote my post I realised it seemed a bit hostile towards yo morris it wasn't meant that way and I am sorry. Thank you for not 'biting'

I am not convinced that my family are more than a drop in the ocean tbh.
Not when I witness the rampant over consumerism that makes my Christmas splurge look like Chistmas in the workhouse :)

I haven't really got an axe to grind personally. I do have a big family of five children but DD is no longer alive and DS2 is adopted. Not me, but by various others they are deemed 'not to count' so I suppose I have the traditional 2.4 nuclear family.

I won't mention the two dogs though (although they are only little)

Juule · 27/08/2012 11:04

I don't think that children have been disapproved of either. Just an incomprehension as to why people would want more than 1 or 2 (or any?).

StealthPolarBear · 27/08/2012 11:12

Op if the thought of having children scares you then remaining childless is an option

Ismeyes · 27/08/2012 11:22

I don't disapprove of any children, they didn't put in a request to be born! I don't disapprove of any parents of large families either (juule for some reason I seem to think you might have a large familie? I could be wrong).

What I am admitting to is to being just as puzzled by large families as large families are invariably puzzled by my one child I.e. can't you have any more?

PenisVanLesbian · 27/08/2012 11:26

I'm not slightly puzzled by single children, why would anyone find that "puzzling"? People have either the number of children they want or for some reason more or less, there is no mystery to be solved. None of which is anyones business but their own.

hobnobsaremyfavourite · 27/08/2012 11:28

Well said penis . Agree 100%.

TandB · 27/08/2012 11:51

The OP was an anti-children/anti-western-children rant dressed up as anti-large-family musings.

The large family argument is clearly just a hook for her real agenda which is that western people have rude children and no sense of family.