To insist on abstinence until DH has a vasectomy?

[Peachesinthesummertime]

We have 3 DCs, youngest is 2 months old, so frankly abstinence is quite easy to insist on at the moment but I assume that will change at some point in the future.

In the past I've used the pill for contraception but no longer want to because of increased breast cancer risk and my family history. I've also used condoms a lot in the past but no longer want to rely on this as the sole method of contraception. I've experienced several incidents in the past of condoms splitting and I really, really don't want any more kids / to take any risks. (DC3 was unplanned...)

DH insists (and has always insisted) that he will not have a vasectomy under any circumstances. He won't really discuss this at all so he hasn't given any reasons for this, just a total flat refusal.

I feel really hacked off about this. I've been through the mill physically and emotionally with 3 pregnancies in 5 years. I don't want my body to be the one that has to suffer for contraception. I don't want to have implants or chemicals or the coil (I heard it can cause heavier periods). I'm fed up with my body being the one to suffer all the time. Why can DH not make the sacrifice for once? I know a vasectomy is not fun but surely it's a walk in the park compared to the discomfort and pain of pregnancy, childbirth and breastfeeding?

So we're at a standstill. He won't change his mind. Neither will I. Any suggestions on how to resolve?

*"Because he doesn't want to and it's his body

There

That's why"*

She to has a right to say she doesn't want any more hormones in her body because of bc risk. She has a right to say condoms/MAP (hormone)/risk of MAP failure is not a contraceptive choice we should be relying on. But you see the difference? These are sensible reasons given. Where's his?

yes exactly Olympic

yes, she has a right to say no to penetrative sex or anything else too, i wasn't disagreeing with that

OwlLady, people are all different. What works well for one couple won't for another.

And do people really use lube? Eurgh.

i don't know, i just thought they might be using something inappropriate, I don't really care for whatever other people do tbh

but that contradicts what you posted about him forcing her to take hormones or have surgery No, Boney, it doesn't. If you'd bothered to read the rest of my post. Abstinence is not contraception, it is not having sex.

SoupDragon

Abstinence is this case is being used as contraception.
The OP has said that she she not going for surgery or going to use hormone contraception, she is going to abstain therefore the husband is not forcing her to take hormones or have surgery.

And couthy who was in this exact same situation has spent the whole thread saying abstinence from piv is a valid form of contraception. Which I would agree with

What a sad situation.

When we had completed our family I was adamant that I did not want more children. I had conceived very easily - both times (plus a third pregnancy which miscarried) while using contraception - so the children were unplanned, though never unwanted. But it indicated a high fertility level. So I needed as near to 100% safety as possible.

We discussed sterilisation and my husband was keen to do this on the basis that it was less invasive for him and I had 'done my bit' as he put it. But I chose sterilisation on the basis that I did not want any more children irrespective of any possible future breakdown in the relationship, becoming a widow, etc. On the other hand should I fall under the proverbial no 9 bus or should we break up I absolutely would not want to be responsible for him not being able to father a child should he have another partner in the future. So my reasons had a stronger logical rationale behind them.

On that basis, after lots of discussion, I went ahead. I had the op on a Friday and was back at work Monday. It really was no big deal.

The point I am somewhat clumsily making is that I am wondering if it not so much the refusal of OP's partner to have a vasectomy but what appears to be a complete refusal to engage or reveal his concerns and an inability to put himself in his partner's shoes and acknowledge her very real concerns about other methods.

Thus there is a stand-off. Ultimatums have no place in a loving relationship.
They are in a lose-lose situation.

As you appear to have reached an impasse why not wait OP until you have recovered a bit more from your last pregnancy (two months is no time at all), then agree to discuss it rationally and, if necessary, get independent advice and counselling?

I wouldn't force or nag or pressure a bloke to have a vasectomy, I wholeheartedly agree with those who say it has to be his decision or nobody's.

But you know what, I couldn't marry and live with a bloke who wanted three children but wasn't prepared to have the snip either. I just couldn't.

But when you are planning your future it's by something ou would generally know at the time. You consider:

Do you want to get married r not
Do you want kids? How many?
How will finances work?
Opinions on raising kids and sahps etc

You generally don't say 'I would like three kids and then for you to be sterilised'

Kayano

I think that if a woman said 'I would like three kids and then for you to be sterilised' If would be a massive red flag.

and I think that that is the first time its been said on the thread. Probably not appropriate but anyway.

Really feel for you OP, unsure what I would do in your situation as we discussed this prior to DC so we both knew what our opinions & options were. I have done the whole contraception thing for 11 years then put my body through 2 pregnancies & births (along with lovely stitches both times) so asking him to respect my wishes & do his bit the other side of kids is no big deal-we both agree on this (though tbh I'm loving condoms as no mess & I'm the one who can roll over & just go to sleep after )

Can't you just do the 69 and call it a day.

He doesn't have to get a vasectomy if he doesn't want to and you don't have to have pregnancy-causing sex if you don't want to. Bodily autonomy and all that

If a man said " I would like 3 kids and then to take absolutely no responsibility for contraception ever again" it would also be a massive red flag. Problem is, many men (and probably women too, if this thread is anything to go by) don't even entertain the thought that contraception is a joint responsibility.

But he would use condoms

Inertia

No one on this thread has said that a man shouldn't take responsibilty for contraception, Just that a man shouldn't be forced to have a vasectomy. There is a big big difference.

We went on holiday with another family, and their kids (nothing wrong with them, just double out normal amount of kids) instantly convinced my DH to have the snip.

Minor procedure, and he was back fit for sex less than 12 hours later (using other protection, of course).

We couldn't find a contraceptive we were happy with, so we avoided having sex for two and a half years before we got married (didn't want children out of wedlock), then we avoided it for six years afterwards (DH didn't feel ready for children), and now we've got three children and will probably now avoid sex until I've been through the menopause! I don't see why it's such an issue really.

As many have said he has absolutely every right not to have an op 'minor and low risk for many but terrible for enough'. Op has a right not to put hormones into herself but seems to not have full knowledge about what is available. Not all hormone treatment increases risk of breast cancer.

For the person who posted about nuva ring it is hormone based is a form of combined contraception like the combined pill but in a ring form.

Non hormone forms femidon, condom, spermicide, sponge and cap copper coil to name a few double them up and very effective.
Mirena though hormone based is progesterone only and has lots of benefits as well including decreased risk of other cancers and is more effective than sterilisation at 5 years
Both sterilisations are relatively minor ops agree vasectomy less major.

Nurse are men that do not have a vasectomy not nice caring and decent?

Op i think with good dialogue and proper advice you will be able to come to some agreement that works for you both. Good luck and let us know what the outcome was.

I could not be doing with this 'avoiding sex' business. I feel me and my DP have a stronger bond because of it. It's natural and fun. I'd soon be frustrated!

Sterilisation should be the contraceptive of last resort, it sounds as though the OP hasn't tried many of the reversible options. You can get chronic pain after a vasectomy, plus I don't think one adult should betrying to end another adult's fertility against their will. Relationships end, it sounds as though this one may be on the way out if the OP considers abstaining from sex something that will mainly affect her husband. Not much love and respect for him coming across in these posts.
The "ease" of the operation is irrelevent. It is irreversible and means if they split up the OP can have more kids whilst her current husband can't. With the divorce rate I think adults getting sterilised to please a current partner and not because they personally want to be sterilised are naive and wimpy.

He may be willing to use condoms, but they've already had an unwanted pregnancy following condom failure, and split condoms appear to be a regular occurance here.

Wonder whether it is possible to use 2 condoms at once, and whether this would act as an extra precaution or make it more likely that one would split ?
Maybe this, combined with withdrawal before ejaculation and charting to find least fertile times for PIV would be answer. Not very spontaneous or fun, granted, but better than the fear of pregnancy.

Or he could use condoms and she could use something she has discounted without proper consideration and both take responsibility

And I honestly think they must be doin something wrong with the condoms if they split that much.

To my mind, there are three types of men in this world...

1. Men who will willingly, neutrally, or even begrudgingly have a vasectomy - once it's been agreed that childbearing is over and done with.

1. Men who are honestly and genuinely terrified of going under the knife and are thoroughly scared of the whole idea of the procedure.

1. Men who point-blank refuse to even entertain the idea of doing their share when it comes to contraception and/or taking their turn to let their body be the one to 'take the hit', so to speak, re everything progeny-related. Just simply Not Their Problem.

I have all the time, and every sympathy in the world for Men 1 and 2. Pretty much zero time at all for Man 3.

I'm sorry of some of you are married to man 3 and don't particularly like me implying - well, coming right and saying - that such men are selfish, entitled oafs. Lucky for me, I don't countenance oafs, so they're not my problem, and I can happily go on singing the praises of nice, lovely, decent men. Give one a whirl some time - I highly recommend them.

bugsylugs - no, see above, men who are genuinely scared of going under the knife and so won't have a vasectomy for that reason aren't necessarily not kind, lovely and decent. I have no issue with those men (aside from the fact that they're able to watch heir wife put her body through far more of an ordeal and yet a vasectomy has them running scared). My gripe is with the selfish entitled oafs who simply won't do it. To be frank, it's not even that they won't have a vasectomy per se. It's what it says about them as partners and husbands.

kayano - no, you don't generally say, on the first date, 'I would like three kids and then for you to be sterilised'. That's clearly not PanickingIdiot's point. You get to know the man, work out for yourself whether he's nice and loving and kind - or, whether he's selfish and entitled and doesn't bother to think beyond the end of his own nose. And that will give you a pretty clear idea of whether he's the type of man who'd be willing to have the snip or not.

So what if he's prepared to wear condoms? The OP doesn't feel that condoms afford her adequate protection against getting pregnant and all that that entails - i.e. the birth of another child. Condoms are not a solution. They are not fail-safe, and they could effectively mean another child the OP doesn't want. Hardly a piffling, insignificant matter. I don't get why that is so hard to grasp.