to be annoyed at the snarly/growly woman?

[mumnosGOLDisbest]

Standing in a busy queue with dd 4yrs (who is small/average) she accidently stepped on the lady' toe. I saw so i immediately said "sorry" and said to dd she should be careful and stand still. The woman turned and looked at dd then growled said in a nice voice "ouch that was my toe". Shw paid for her things then made a point of limping away. Now if that qas you and you already had a broken toe/foot/poorly foot then i'm sorry but it wwas truly just an accident otherwise aibu to think that was a massive overreaction and the woman was a complete cow a bit harsh and really upset my dd?

Thanks Captain. I'm glad I wasn't the only person to see the OP's comments like that.

Oh my God what a total bitch, how completely toxic, she sounds like a complete narc, I hope your poor DD is ok :(

hopkin total bitch? completely toxic? Really?

.....and "..hope your poor DD is ok"

Please tell me that you were being sarky

If not

WTAFFFF

..and if the OP's DD had trodden on my foot and not apologised, I would have said exactly the same

My own DD currently walks right behind me and keeps clipping my heels. And it's fucking sore

snort at hopkinette

you are being sarcastic, aren't you?

Sorry to re-start the debate after a peaceful night's sleep, but... This idea that no-one is allowed to tell off/speak even-slightly-harshly to anyone else's children is interesting, innit?!

Quite a lot of mummies seem to believe no-one should speak crossly to their little angel - that is their job entirely. But then it follows logically that you have to keep constant vigilance, because every moment and movement of your DC's is your responsibility. You can't let DC develop independence in a natural, healthy way, because you have to stay with her/him all the time and be constantly alert for people s/he might hurt and/or annoy so that you can 'deal with' any problems before anyone else does. And how exhausting that must be! No wonder so many mummies drink so much wine!

Parents are not doing their DC any favours, if they try to protect them from any upset or tears. As they say in Yorkshire "We're not made of paper, we won't melt in the rain"... It's a crucial part of developing mental health to learn how to be upset and frightened (and other 'difficult emotions) and to deal with it and recover from it. It's called 'emotional resilience', and children who don't learn to cope with being upset by other people really struggle with school and friendships.

OP, from what you've said, I think you've given your DD several clear messages you probably didn't intend to give her:

• Her feelings are more important than anyone else's;
• Other people's behaviour/emotions can control her feelings (implication = she doesn't control her own behaviour/emotions);
• She can't cope with other people without your help;
• If/when other people are (even slightly) mean, she should be upset and disempowered; you and she can only function in the world if everyone is nice.

Whether or not the woman actually over-reacted, it was a perfect opportunity to help your DD learn to cope with difficult situations. Next time, perhaps, try a different approach: "Oops, you hurt that lady's toe, let's say sorry and see if we can help... Oh dear, she's still grumpy! Never mind, let's leave her in peace now, cos people sometimes need a bit of time to get over being hurt and upset, don't they"... And if you can manage it, I bet you'll soon watch your DD blossom into a more confident child, who no longer cries and clings to your legs in difficult situations :)

What never ceases to amze me is that there is one word now that people won't use and won't let their children use- and it's not f*ck, it's SORRY.

thanks flow 4 for the advise. im happy to hear comments for or against my own pov but think some got very bitchy and judgy last night which is not what MN is about.

*I am not pfb with dd (dont have time with 3 dcs). dd is not a 'precious princess' or even naughty if it was ds would have been different.
*dd is balanced, confident and would usually apologise herself, which underlines the tone of womans response (it was enough to scare her which was unecessary).
dd wasnt allowed time to apologise. my apology after the womans quick response wasnt even acknowledged.
i did exactly as flow suggests - told dd to be careful and that shed hurt the lady. also told her to say sorry but time was short and i didnt want her to leave without an apology whilst i was dealing with dd. i didnt comment to dd after she still thinks im cross with her lack of care and apology (lack of). i never said to her thar woman was grumpy/growly/wrong.

should i have calmed dd down, left the queue and chased the woman out the shop?

i agree that people should be able to talk to others children and wouldnt have minded her saying "ouch that was my foot". my problem isnt that a stranger spoke to my child or even expected an apology it was the way she did it!

disclaimer the wine last night was virtual as i am bf and i did not really wish gangrene on anyone. woman wasnt permanently injured as she was walking fine an hr or so later

I think people were harsh to the OP. Somethimes you weigh up a situation in a split second, and it sounds like a small accident happened in a crushed queue which unfortunately resulted in the woman's toe getting hurt. The OP apologised, but was a bit shocked at how harsh the woman's reaction was under the circumstances - it's not as if the little girl lobbed a tin of beans at her head then ran off pointing and laughing is it!!

The messages the little girl got was to be careful in a queue, and to apologise if you hurt someone (as that's what her mother modelled for her). It doesn't say anywhere she thought that "sorry" shouldn't be said. It says the girl was a bit upset. That's normal after a reaction like the one she got. I wouldn't expect a 4 year old to necessarily be able to understand (at that precise moment - later yes) that the old lady was really hurt. She just saw she was angry and clammed up.

Honestly, unless the mum screamed after the lady "I hope you get gangrene you old witch, why are you faking that limp???!!" I can't see the little girl learnt from this that her feelings are more important than anyone else's! It doesn't say anywhere that the mum even let on to her daughter how she actually felt - all the daughter saw was her mum apologising, and telling her to keep still. I also think that by leaving the situation there, the little girl will have picked up that her mum could see her side of things (that it really was an accident and the woman scared her a bit). I think it's really important for a child to know that.

OP I think you should have got out hours before you did. I bet the reactions on here have played on your mind far more than the grumpy lady's! I really would stop now - I don't think you can win on this one!!!

thanks magic you just summed up the situation. i know you're right but i am rubbish at leaving arguments. i think its because my little (now 6ft+) db always got the last word as a kid

Ahhhhh... soooooo... Then.... You couldn't have Last Word with the grumpy lady, so it's niggling at you... So you've come on here to continue the argument vicariously and try to have Last Word here instead?!

Let's play this out, then... If you could have had Last Word, what would you have said to her?

Don't do it mumnos !!!!!!! LOL.

word (as in last)

Mwahahahahahahahaha! >evil< !

YABU

If your 4 year old had stood on my mothers foot she would have been caused agony and would have been quite within her right to say 'ouch that was my foot' and limp off. Pain aides people to pull unpleasant faces you know so it may not have been a 'growl' as you describe.

Your DD should learn some manners, 4 is plenty old enough to say sorry herself.

Btw, it's 'mum knows', but as a proffessional teacher, I'm sure you already know that.

OP YANBU, alltherestofmumsnetIBU

Yes, it IS U to think that an apology from you was enough. I would stand there and make my 18mo TODDLER apologise, NOT get angry at a woman who growled through pain CAUSED by one of my DC.

An NT 4yo is PERFECTLY capable of apologising for themselves. In fact, I have two SN DC, and by 4yo, both would have been able to SIGN sorry to the woman. And I would have expected them to as well.

How on earth can you blame a woman who has been hurt by YOUR CHILD for reacting in pain, and then not INSIST your child apologises to them?! How on earth are you going to teach your DD to apologise when she has done something wrong?

OP, if your DD knocks into someone at school and hurts them, she will be expected to apologise for herself. If she is 4yo already, then she must be starting school in just a few weeks. How is she going to be able to apologise to someone she has accidentally hurt if they are shouting at her or crying in front of her, if she can't personally apologise to this woman in the supermarket?

It's something you should be teaching your DC from the moment they are able to form words. Even when my DC were tiny babies and used to pinch while bf, I would take their hand, use it to stroke wherever they had hurt, and tell them "now we say sorry, because that hurts, it was ouchy".

I love threads like these .
These things happen, she stood on someone's toe, person said ouch.
And not only does Op come and post about such a trivial incident, it turns into a 7 page debate.
Op you're being ridiculous.
Everyone else including Salmo, thanks for giving me a laugh on a Sunday morning.

Aaarrgghh! Your DD WAS being unruly - she STOOD ON SOMEONE ELSE'S TOE!

IMO, in a supermarket, that IS being unruly. In a play park, not so much, but in a supermarket queue, only my 18mo sometimes gets restless. If he does, I hold onto him or put him in the trolley.

I can't abide parents that let their DC run riot in the supermarket. If I as a Lone Parent can control my DC in there, when one is a toddler and two others have Autism, then there isn't any excuse IMO.

And yes, I AM that catsbumface lady watching your DC run up and down the aisles, bumping into my trolley or pram, knocking my 8yo with muscle problems over even though he is holding onto my trolley, and getting even more catsbumface when the parents are nowhere to be seen.

I don't understand.

The OP says that the toe-standing occurred, she immediately apologised and told her DD to be careful and then the woman either growled or said in a nice voice (not quite sure I quite understand the strike-out use in this context) that her toe was hurt.

So where does all the DD not having time to say sorry herself, and the women "getting in her face" come into it?

It sounds like a bit of a non-incident to be honest and I don't see that anything the woman did was so terrible as to prevent a 4 year-old from saying sorry.

It's a bit much to be pissed off with someone who may well have been genuinely hurt. I've had a broken toe recently and if someone had stood on it I'm pretty sure I would have growled too! I also once had someone have a go at me in a supermarket queue for daring to react to her shoving her trolley into the back of my legs. Apparently my knee buckling and my cry of pain was me being "completely overdramatic", and her opinion was not changed by me pointing out that I have a large scar up the back of my achilles tendon from a series of operations as a child, and that if it is bumped hard enough then the sensitivity can make my leg give way. I limped away after that encounter and the woman continued to tut and mutter about my complete "overeaction".

Was it you, OP?

So, you where too close to the woman in front. You have no idea if the woman was hurt or suffering from an injury and your pissed off that she limped away.

woman wasnt permanently injured as she was walking fine an hr or so later

How do you know this?

The woman may, or may not, have been "harsh" but chances are she was in a lot of pain. I know if I get hurt I feel pain followed by a spurt of anger/annoyance. I usually release this annoyance by mumbling a lot of swear words under my breath. The woman saying "ouch, that was my toe" wasn't that bad in the grand scheme of things. I think you're overreacting.

Alright, I didn't reply to this thread yesterday because it seemed like a stupid thing to get worked up about.

BUT, this happened to me today. Nice summer day, was wearing sandals and a little toddler wearing those horrible trainer type sandals wasn't looking where he was going and came and jumped on my second toe and then twisted around leaving me with a grazed toe. It fucking hurt. I would've given the parent evils and shouted "fuck" had I not read this thread. Instead I smiled and walked off secretly pissed off.

Honestly, shoes on bare feet fucking hurt. People should keep an eye on their rugrats so they don't go around inflicting pain on strangers.