To have this opinion of SIL.

[Justme23]

Probably a terrible whiny thread actually but I need a vent.

The back story is that since I have known SIL2 she has wanted to get pregnant.

Her ex left her because she stopped her contraception without telling him (which in my opinion is abhorrent). He was always very vocal that he wasn't ready for a baby and neither was she, because of their age and situation. (SIL being 19 and VERY immature and him being 21 and studying furiously for a law degree, both living at respective maternal homes). He was broken up when he found out she was lying and took it very hard, poor kid.

Anyway she finally conceived after a string of one night stands and an on off thing with her ex. She told another guy that the baby was his for the last six months of her pg but when baby was born it was clear that her ex is the father.

She told him (via text) and he rang her to ask what she wanted from him. She said nothing at all (very dramatic scene, telling him he can't go anywhere near the baby, she is a "strong" woman, blah blah.

And typically after 14 months she's realising it's not as easy as she thought it was, mainly down to her doting mummy refusing to sponsor her anymore after she threw a tantrum and smashed up her room. (over a broken phone no less)

She is the epitome of a Jeremy Kyle brat. Out every weekend, no job, sees less of her child than I do mine and I have a full time 12 hours a day job!

So she rings her ex, who is doing brilliantly at his degree and job, has got a lovely girlfriend and money etc, and demands money from him.

He said no... That if she will allow him some time to meet the baby and get to know her then he will provide for THE CHILD.

And I agree with him..? So does DP.

Is it that unreasonable?

I too do get the impression that because he is a man he is literally damned no matter what he does.

He's already agreed to support the child, he will set up a savings account
In her name, he will buy whatever SIL asks for, he just will not give her money. I think that is 100% fair.

The guy was absolutely devastated over her behaviour the first time, and they were on and off because he was trying to get back with her. This girl is very manipulative. He isn't controlling her, when the love of your life is pleading you to go to bed with you, promising to take the MAP to make sure, he's a young lad bless him. He's trying to do his best.

They were 19 and 21 then, they're, what, now? 22 and 24?

That's the thing that's being missed. Yes, they should both have known better - she sounds manipulative and he's just an idiot for trusting her- but it might be better to step back and realise that this is a pair of kids trying to deal with matters that being adults to their knees.

I know not everyone of that age is a child but these two clearly are. And they need help.

If he's in Law, then he should know where he stands. The fact that he's saying the things that he is, says he's reacting from panic not sense.

I agree, he needs to ask for a DNA test and then the whole thing needs to go to court. He gets access, she gets money.

Or, if he's got real balls, he could go for being the resident parent. If she's as flighty as she sounds, he might just get it.

It comes down to - how much does he actually want the child? Because saying he won't hand over cash is lovely, but the only time that's even slightly acceptable is if he's prepared to step up properly and do half the work.

If he means, I want three hours on a Sunday avo in a park or no cash, he can stuff off and start paying, because then he is just as poor a parent as she is.

I'm not convinced though, that a PP wasn't right. 19 yo, wants a child desperately (why?) gets it through trickery, but then doesn't want to deal. Something's gone wrong there, and a conversation and some help might be better than calling her vile.

I think we're all forgetting the point here, (bit like my ex and ex in laws) it's not about the contraception. It's about the child that's already here. Poor thing.

I can completely see why you're frustrated and contemptuous of this girl. The ex was beyond daft to sleep with her again after the break-up. But he did do it and he has to face the consequences, however unfair it seems. He didn't have a right to make the girl take the morning after pill or have an abortion and it's very worrying that you think he did. IMO it was pretty off for him to have put any pressure on her that way. She may be completely irresponsible and a very unpleasant person to boot, and she may wanted to have a baby while he did not, but none of that matters. He slept with her so he now has to step up to carry out his fatherly duties. If he needs access, there are ways of getting that.

Are you looking for the moral solution, OP, or the legal one?

Legally, the baby's Father can seek residency or contact through the courts. The fact that he hasn't done that up until now, despite acknowledging the child as his, is a reflection of his character.

Legally, the baby's NRP is liable to contribute financially, in cash, via the CSA if preferred, and the RP is responsible for the expenditure of that. As a professional, he will know that.

The two are not linked in any way.

What has happened between them and in the early months of this child's life is evidence enough they neither are emotionally mature enough to be parents

"In her name, he will buy whatever SIL asks for, he just will not give her money. I think that is 100% fair."

Why do you think the mother should have to ask for something & then wait for the father to go & get it?

Young lad my arse...he's a grown man and needs to start acting like one.

So he's going to set up a savings account is he?

And just what is the child supposed to live on in the meantime?

Oh that's right...everything except cold, hard cash because he doesn't want to part with maintenance money

Is this some sort of reverse AIBU or are you just really really unsupportive of your SIL because you hate her?

That hatred seems to be clouding your judgement somewhat so my advice is you wind your neck in and let the two parents get on with it.

She sounds awful.

He did the right thing in walking away when he found out the person he was in a relationship with had stopped taking contraception. In a relationship it's different. There is trust there, an agreement about contraception and it's not unreasonable to not use a condom if it has been agreed that the pill will be used instead.

But when it's a one night stand, with someone he already knows is capable of lying and deceit because they have decided they intend to get pregnant, and he chooses to not use a condom - then he's a fool.

He didn't use a condom. Top and bottom of it! That's his fault.

You say that he will not give her money. Well, sorry, but it doesn't work like that. If this child is his, then he has to pay for it. The law does not allow him to say nah, I'm not giving you cash, I'll put money in a savings account. Or to buy stuff instead of giving money. He does not have that choice. She is legally entitled to money every month from him. To do with as she pleases. If she goes to the CSA and he tries to say no, I won't give her money, I'll buy shoes and stuff instead, well, they're going to say no, you'll pay actual money.

a child needs a roof over their head. Food. Heat. Light. Part of what is paid is for that. Is he going to pay a portion of that? What about holidays? Is he going to pay for his child to have a holiday? Shoes? clothes? pocket money? school trips? Or is he going to show up with a packet of nappies every now and again and call that his contribution? Or is she supposed to go to him and ask for a pair of shoes, a new coat? for the next 18 years? Is it his intention to punish and demean her? To make her justify her expenditure to him?

What she did while in the relationship was bloody awful. She was 100% in the wrong. What you describe of her character makes her sound dreadful.

But when it comes to this child and paying actual money - It's just tough shit. That's what happens when you have sex with someone without using a condom and a baby is created. He can, of course, join the band of avoiders by quitting his job, lying about his income, disappearing to the other end of the country and so on.

He has to take responsibility for his actions. And that means accepting that it was his choice to not put a condom on when banging someone who had already lied to him and tried to get pregnant. And accepting that that means he has to contribute financially to this child. Roof over head food in mouth contribute!

The MAP was suggested by her.

He is trying to step up. He only found out he was the father six months after the baby was born. If the child hadn't halookout darker she would have not contacted him and would have continued with the other potential father ( who was so besotted he found her the flat she lives in and fronted the deposit, and was on the verge of moving in when she
Told him VIA TEXT he was not the father).

The ex told me he wants a relationship, he asked her if he could come to the babies first birthday, she refused unless he would pay her £4.800 (£100 a week since birth) but he still sent a card and a little silver locket to me to give on the day or keep until things are sorted out.

He even mentioned that if things went well he would be more than happy to share custody but not until the baby is comfortable with him. I would say that's more than responsible.

He also knew she was pregnant, I know they texted during her final months but as far as he knew, she was shacking up with her new boyfriend and they were going to be a family.

He's already agreed to support the child, he will set up a savings account
In her name, he will buy whatever SIL asks for, he just will not give her money. I think that is 100% fair.

No. It's not.

Child support money might go towards her mother's bus fare so she can take the baby to be weighed by the HV or the delivery cost of a supermarket shop because it's a struggle to manage the bags and a baby. It's not his choice.

If she goes to the CSA he'll be contributing a lot more.

So how often did he try and see his daughter between the age of 6 months and a year?
Was he refused? Did he seek legal representation?

He's not done himself any favours by being so 'hands off' and now he's refusing to fulfil his legal obligations because they are morally questionable?

The MAP was suggested by her?

really?

Woman who has lied and tried to get pregnant by chucking pills away: "hey, ex, fancy a one night stand with no condom, I'll take the MAP"
Man who broke up with woman who lied and tried to get pregnant by chucking pills away and who really does not want a child "ok. That sounds fair and reasonable because of course you have not already demonstrated great ability to deceive. Let's have sex with no protection and I'll come with you and trust that you don't take the pill and put it under your tongue."

She was wrong to do what she did. Very VERY wrong.

but he is not absolved of responsibility. And he has to pay actual money to support his child, regardless the circumstances of that conception.

Well said Hecate

Again just to clarify, seeing as quite a lot of posters are not READING what is said.

Her house is PAID FOR BY HOUSING BENEFIT AND HER FATHER

Her bills are PAID FOR BY HER FATHER

Her baby is PAID FOR BY EVERYONE ELSE.

She gets CB and JSA for spending (drinking) money.

The reasons I don't like her are many. Including telling the afore mentioned 8yo and DPs children that when her baby is born they won't get birthday presents from the rest of the family any more, that father Christmas had died (sobbing children on Xmas eve), throwing her neices (who lives with us) brand new phone into the swimming pool, stealing same nieces clothes, telling DPs ex that his mother had died, faking suicide by calling an ambulance after taking half a pot of vitamin E tablets.... The list goes on...

He didn't use contraception, he is half responsible for the life created as a result. If he doesn't want to give her money, and he doesn't think she is making a good job of parenting then he should be seeking custody or joint custody at the very least.

No point him whining now about how he doesn't want to give her money. Shouldn't have created a life with her then.

I get you don;t like her - thats very obvious. But he is responsible not her father or the state and should be paying a fiar amount of money. If her father chooses to give her more money so that she can drink it away then more fool him. As long as his child is well cared for and healthy then he has no valid complaint.

If the baby is not well cared for and healthy then he should be getting off his arse and suing for custody.

I'm reading it, I just don't see how that means he isn't the father.

Baby's grandfather stepping up is not a reason for the baby's father to do nothing.

Are you saying that if one parent gets benefits and family support and is a twat then the other parent shouldn't have to be responsible for their own child .

You dislike her - fine, she doesn't sound very likeable.

Other people pay her bills - that's their choice. If her father wants to subsidise her he can.

Neither of those mean that it's reasonable for the baby's father to choose not to pay child support. If he doesn't like the idea of giving her money or trust her to spend it appropriately maybe he should try not to have any more children with women he doesn't respect.

The ex sounds like a right idiot to have had sex with her at all after the break up. Condoms aren't foolproof either, even if had used one. Doesn't sound too clever to me.

And you sound ghaaaaaastly OP.

He won't give her cash for the same reason anyone else in the family won't.

It'll go on bingo sites, pissing it up the wall with her friends, clothes etc.

I went to her house with DP not long ago, all there was in her fridge was a bottle of vodka and some microwave burgers. Nothing for baby, hence why she invited us..£200 asda shop later and massive argument with DP. Then we find out FIL had given her £150 that morning.

I fully support her ex not wanting to give her money. Anyone else would be grateful.

Never have sex with someone who you wouldn't want to be

So what? It's not her father's responsibility. Nice bloke to be doing it. But it is not his responsibility. It is the responsibility of the two people who made the child to pay for the child.

Are you seriously saying that because her dad is helping her out, that is a reason why the father of the baby doesn't need to pay?

erm. Perhaps if he contributed to his child, her father wouldn't have to.

What odd logic. I would have put it the other way. He is not paying for his child, so HER FATHER HAS TO PAY THE DIFFERENCE AND HE WOULDN'T HAVE TO IF THE FATHER OF THE CHILD WAS CONTRIBUTING

I'm sure her dad would rather not be topping up her rent and buying food. Perhaps if the father of her child was contributing to the bills, then he wouldn't have to.

I am not saying she's a nice person. I don't know how many times I have to stress that before it gets through. She's behaved disgustingly.

but that's got bugger all to do with his responsibility to provide for his child.

If she's a bad mother, then he should go for custody. If he's not going to do that/get that, then I think he's got more of a responsibility to contribute than her father does. don't you?

But surely if the poor child is not being cared for you or he should be more interested in contacting social services than squabbling over maintenance.

Support it all you like, the law does not agree. He will either pay cash to support his child or he will duck out of it. If he wants - and you want - to justify him avoiding paying for his child on the grounds that she's an awful person, then fine, if it makes him feel better about not contributing to the things the child actually needs.

What does his solicitor say about access?

If my child was living with someone who neglected her then I would be phoning social services and fighting tooth and nail for residency, not buying silver lockets and making vague promises of tins of formula.