AIBU re: sending your newborn to the hospital nursery?

[coraltoes]

A good friend of mine has given birth in a private london hospital. I popped in yesterday to visit her, on what is was day 2 of her stay there post CS. I have to say what an amazing place it was, but i was left feeling a bit cold about something and wondered if I was wrong to?

She looked well rested, and I asked how the days and nights were going, as god knows newborns can be all over the place with their sleep and feeds. Her reply surprised me. She had been sending him to the nursery to sleep at night, from about 8pm with them bottle feeding him (she has chosen not to BF) through the night when he needs it. She did this from day 1.

Now, it is the kind of place that would help you in the night by your bed if you needed it, so she wouldnt have to make up bottles whilst struggling to walk with a scar etc. So I was a bit "hmmmmm" about not even letting your newborn sleep near you on his first night in the world, so you can get some sleep. If you had laboured for 2 nights i can see the appeal but her Csection was scheduled, and took place at the start of the day.

What do you guys make of it? Would you use the same service? Maybe i'm being a bit precious!

coral I was the OP on the other thread referred to, I got told I was jealous, thought I was the better parent, a horrible friend and various other things. I saw this thread start earlier today and didn't get a chance to post till now, I would offer you my flameproof suit but sadly it is burnt to a crisp.

FWIW I haven't changed my mind and it wouldn't be for me, I just couldn't hand them over to a stranger. As it happened I had a long and not particularly pleasant labour with DD1 who subsequently wouldn't settle, I was knackered and the midwife offered to take her for me so I could sleep, after an hour I went to get her back as I couldn't bear it and I just remember being at the midwife station and there were 2 babies both wrapped in white blankets and I had no idea which one was mine I felt awful....second time round I didn't even spend a night in hospital but DD2 would not settle without me and ended up sleeping on my chest at the start, I think this was my comment in my thread that seemed to really get peoples backs up like I thought I was better for having her sleep on my chest (it was the only way either of were getting any sleep it wasn't a conscious decision to do it)...for me I just didn't want to be apart from them and it seemed to me (well in DD2's case) that they didn't want to be apart from me either.

Rabbits - best option is clip on cots, more single rooms with accommodation for dad (who can also do skin 2 skin if mum is too tired and ill) or grandmothers, and if that's not forthcoming then more MSW's on postnatal wards.

Actually I agree with all of that, an individual room would have cut down on the majority of the stress I had postnatally, though I would still have made use of the night nursery, I might have coped better and longer had I not been so worried about disturbing other women, in particular the two women I was sharing a room with who had babies in SCBU and weren't very impressed with the noise my DD made, must be very difficult to have your baby away from you then listen to another one fussing and crying all night.

With ds1, I was in a hosp that did have a nursery room for babes whilst you had a shower, slept a bit etc... I didn't really use it though - the first night after a 38 hour labour, I asked them to take him, and to wake me for feeds - I had been induced, and hadn't slept for days!

That night they woke me for breast feeding etc - and it WAS handy to have it there, but I was tuned into his cry, the nursery was right next door, and I struggled more with being woken by a health care assistant wielding ds1 saying he needs a feed, than what I would have done having ds1 wake me up himself - It was a learning curve.

So after that, he was in my room, except for showers etc... Must be biological, but I preferred being woken by ds1 hiimself, rather than some poor HCA wielding him! It was dead handy for showers etc though! And The HCA's were absolutely lovely and supportive! And it was handy for an alleged rest, and knowing it was there.

With Ds2, I was in a different hospital - they didn't have such a room.

Unfortunately after ds2, I developed septicaemia through my episiotomy wound, and was quite poorly for a while - they put me in a side room, and sick as I was, I was left to get on with it.

I was on 3 different I.V antibiotics and an anti-viral, and iron tablets. Which meant I spent a lot of time puking, and with black diarrhoea. I wasn't allowed to breastfeed- cos of drugs, and spent much time asking staff for bottles, with a screaming baby in the side room - they were only allowed to bring out one bottle at a time, at my request, because of breast feeding policies, re access to bottles and subsequent subverting other mothers into bottle feeding issues - which was a joke being in a side room, and having breastfed my other child... and I spent half my alert hours asking without success for a couple of bottles, so my baby could be fed when he was hungry, rather than me picking up dripstand, aquarium tank, and wheeling him out to negotiate for a bottle...

But anyway, I had diarrhoea, the side room didn't have a toilet, I had an infected episiotomy wound, and septicaemia (my blood pressure and renal function had picked up by then) was constantly dragging around a drip stand (not enough staff to detach me between IV's) trying to negotiate Ds2 in his aquarium tank, with a collection of sanitary pads etc on my way to the toilet..

A wee room where I could have left him briefly would have well come in handy by then - even for a shower! It would have been brill!

The staff were actually really good - just very busy, and constrained by policies...

Not surprisingly, I got PND afterwards.

"making such emotive statements about how awful it is for the baby to be parted from their mum, some posters are essentially saying that that baby had a terrible start to life and insinuating that it is irrecoverable. For women who had to be parted, or who chose to because of their labour (and I definitely think that if you are exhausted and in pain then why not take advantage of a few hours decent sleep, you certainly won't get any at home), such statements just scream 'you're a failure as a mother'"

No they don't! Women do the best they can with the resources and the information they've got. I had no skin to skin with dd at birth because I simply didn't know that it would have been a good thing to do, and the midwife quickly dressed her and shoved her in a cot to one side of the room then got on with suturing my giant episiotomy. I don't feel a failure about this - I did my best at a very difficult time. I also don't feel a failure for not being able to hold my second ds for an hour because I was trembling so much after birth.

"you will find people who are obsessed with how other people give birth to and feed their babies , a la shagmund & 50"

I'm not interested in judging individual women - I'm interested in the way early postnatal care for mums and babies is organised and in the way this subject is discussed. But again - it comes back to this obsession with competitive mothering on mumsnet. You can't even have a sensible discussion in which you explore all the aspects of an issue like this without constant accusations of judgyness. Want to repeat: IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT YOU!

When I had dd the MW took her for a while because I was unconcious after a long labour had gone badly wrong.

Problem is, Shagmundfreud, it's a very emotive subject, particularly if things didn't go the way you wanted or expected them to because of circumstances outside your control.

And if things didn't happen in an ideal way, even if there was nothing you could have done about it, it's very easy to take comments personally, because of all the sadness, frustration and disappointment associated with that.

Particularly when people like 50shadesofslapntickle make sweeping judgy comments like "Yanbu - I wonder why people like your friend bother having kids. I detest this trend for farming babies out as soon as possible and not even attempting to bf is not something I have any respect for" without any attempt to show any empathy or understanding for other people's circumstances.

this used to be the norm, women would stay in hospital for up to 10 days especially with first and babies would be kept in a nursery so the women could rest this seems perfectly logical to me, you fed and changed them they slept (hopefully) and you did without being woken up by other crying babies in the room. it is very important to get rest after giving birth i was so tired i was hallucinating (this was down to the drugs too i am sure)

in many cultures women stay in bed for a week and the other women of the family help out many get very little support once out of hospital so do not really get to rest after giving birth

dr - it is emotive, but we're adults and it's right that we should be able to talk frankly about it and not distort the subject by refusing to acknowledge certain aspects for fear of causing offence.

Should add that comments like the one by 50shades are very unhelpful - no need for being spiteful and judgemental. You can acknowledge your concerns about post-birth separation without doing this.

Freud - no society which values and understands breastfeeding would separate mums and babies after birth. That we did it in the 1960's in the UK is evidence of how deeply entrenched the bottle-feeding culture was here at that time. It was in part responsible for the massive increase in breastfeeding failure rates seen during the 1950's, 1960's and 1970's that we're only just beginning to come back from.

shagmund you speak a lot of sense and your argument is very balanced. Anyone who chooses not to see this is obviously projecting their own issues and insecurities on to the argument. And letting a midwife hold a settled baby for a few hours whilst you rest is not the same as sending a baby to a nursery overnight.

Like I say, I speak as someone who has had 3 c-sections - some emergency, some skin on skin immediately and one in nicu on a ventilator for 10 days - so a spectrum of experiences. I don't feel a failure for any of these births despite posters saying a baby being with its mother as much as possible at the beginning is best for the baby. It is quite simply, based on empirical research, true.

Still - can you link to where I said that please?

I don't remember saying it, but if I did I will apologise for it now as that's a sniffy and unkind comment.

Would also add that I've never been of the opinion that a mum's well-being after birth isn't important. Of course it is, and mum's who are unwell or unable to cope need compassionate care.

Still - have just done a search under my name and can't find the comment. Can you be a bit more specific about what you think I said?

If you don't havean accurate enough recall of what I said to locate the thread then maybe it's a bit unfair to dredge it up.

It wouldn't be my choice to put my baby in the hospital nursery (I burst into tears at the very suggestion after DS1,and the Dr told me I was emotionally unstable )

I wouldn't have a maternity nurse either, but each to their own.

It is fine to use research to shape statutory services, so that best practice is evidence based.

In the OP's friend's case, this is her choice and as long as that choice is not damaging to either parties, then she has the right to choose the action that she has.

In an ideal world, dad would be staying close and doing the nights,but whilst he isn't, then handing over care to an expert helper, is fine.

Skin to skin etc, works with any primary carer, if we were really following research, we would be shaping statutory services to include family members, instead of being focused on the mother, especially if she has decided not to bf.

Ha I have heard it all now, I'm spiteful And judgemental for thinking the best place for a baby is by the mother's side and for thinking women should try and give a baby breastmilk if possible?! I have heard it all now and really, if people on here think that thinking like this is being spiteful the world has gone potty and I couldn't give two hoots about anyone who thinks my view on this is wrong - the irony, i have a view that leans towards doing the best for baby and some woman have such a massive chip on their shoulder they think this is bad... Wow!

The mum has the right to do anything she likes. It's understandable she should want rest and sleep following major surgery.

But it's still reasonable to feel sorry for a newborn deprived of the familiarity and comfort of its mother's body, voice, smell and milk as its first experience of life outside the womb.

50shades - you are entitled to have strong feelings about the importance of breastfeeding. I certainly do. But it's better if you can show a bit of compassion and understanding for mums who are - by and large - doing what they believe to be the right thing by their babies.

The comfort can come from a range of primary carers and not just the mother, personally i think that it is a shame that in the UK it to so long for paternity leave to be introduced and we are moving away from the sense of a family that includes close members. A Mothers isolation starts in hospital.

For me, the ideal would be for other family members to provide the care for the baby, not MW's, but that would need CRB's, assessments etc.

I work in CP and we are far to focused on just Mum and Baby, for instance, only one Mum and Baby unit in my city allows the father to stay after three months,but not any other family members and mum and baby cannot stay out.

We need to review the services.

The research is there that shows any skin to skin works, as in the plans for withdrawing baby's 'wearing' is recommended.

Shag - like I said, I'm happy with my view on this and couldn't give a hoot if people think the way I think on this is wrong. But I have to disagree with you when you say mums are doing what they think is best for their babies in instances like putting them in hospital nurseries as newborns, they are doff it for themselves is how I see it and same with not even trying to bf or keeping going with it if you can. But that's just my view and people can think how they like - as long as I am doing right by my little ones thats all that really matters to me.

Seriously 50 shades? Do you really think I am a bad mum because my dd was looked after by the MW for the first few hours? I didn't ask for her to be taken away I was unconcious and the staff were trying to stop me bleeding to death. Would it have really been better for dd for them not to treat me and let me die so as not to delay skin to skin?

Sensible idea....pretty hard todo much post csection
This is how it was for all mums in the 70 s. plenty of time for her to bond with baby.

A well rested mum can heal more quickly, avoid pnd and enjoy that baby more.