I do not understand why people have kids when they can not afford them.

[sea74]

I know this topic will create lots of critics but i want to share my thoughts and see if anyone agrees or i am the odd one out.
I come from a european country where the fertility rate is 1.4 that is each woman/family has 1.4 child. Grandparents very often are the to help, but women (and men) are responsible enough not to have children if they can not afford them or look after them.
I grew up thinking that i want children not because i want them for me but because i have to donate life and their life must be a good life. Children are not mine but they are individuals.

Having said that, when i moved to the UK, i realised how things are different.
I feel that many people think children will not change their lives, they get pregnant easily, they do not really worry too much (and take contraception) in order to avoid pregnancies.
Then, when they have the child, you see that often these children live in broken families, or the single mothers do not have 50 pounds to buy them a decent meal, or they are left in front of the tv all summer because they had not planned childcare is expensive and grandparents live far.

Children should be planned carefully, i think and it is very selfish to have them without thinking of (and being ready for) the consequences.

What do you guys do that requires 70hrs per week input for £4.83 per hour?

I was a carer.

And I don't have any children yet, because I'd like some money before me first. So no brood here!

I never said my circumstances were that bad

And I don't see myself as a problem. I'll probably always need support to work, but when I am fit to do it, I will work my bloody ass off, like I did before I landed in shit street, just because it's not as good as what other people do, or brings in a lot of money, doesn't decrease the worth of me as a member of society, and I am glad I get a bit of support from the government, or I'd be totally screwed, probably lose my kids, and end up homeless.

I thought you were living in a box ;)

Its quite a big box though.

Mine has little holes for windows.

Ok, pay minimum wage, if your conscience let's you. But you really cant be then slating people who rely on benefits, can you

that is the point

Thank you, icecold

The government must be there to legislate because it needs to ensure that society functions well for all, not just those who have the intelligence or the drive to run companies.

Why do people think that all people on NMW don't work hard?

I also still want to know why it is considered feckless to take any job no matter how bad the pay in preference to unemployment.

I may have crap income now but I don't work any less hard than when I had a good salary. Perhaps I even work harder as I go to work,keep the house,look after my DC, job hunt and try and boost my knowledge to improve my employment prospects. So what gives you the right to call me feckless?

It's those having kids they can't afford who have no conscience about life at all.

Oh I can't win can I! Stay at home, unemployed single parent on benefits OR go to work (which I do) and earn nmw and claim tax creds to help me make ends meet due to crippling childcare/living costs and be thought of as feckless?!seriously?!

ghost I do ok for myself now, but for a year, I worked 4 minimum wage jobs. Daytime, evening, Saturday and Sunday. I didn't claim any benefits. I would have decked anyone who told me, I shouldn't have kids

novack only if money is your moral currency

It's not always about money is it. I don't think anyones a better parent than me because they have more money.

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NovackNGoodTue 07-Aug-12 21:56:28

Its more than enough to live off of and to save for the future from, which is why many Europeans come to the UK to work in the jobs the feckless refuse to get off their bums for

Are you agreeing with her , carernotasaint ?

For Novack

A large crowd in the Hope Centre are from Romania, and say they are waiting for food because collecting scrap metal and washing cars isn't enough to make ends meet. A bigger number is there because of benefit delays and cuts, or simply because they are no longer able to make their low wages stretch.

Ouch icecold that sounds tough. :( glad things are better now.

My old job i was contracted to do 3 12 hour shifts a week, always ended up being much more and a lot of it I wouldn't get paid for. For example, right at the end of my shift a resident falls and hurts themselves. Someone HAS to accompany them to the hospital. So because id not want to leave the night staff short (3 people looking after 40 elderly people with dementia) I'd take them. We all know what hospitals are like so it was usually hours later I'd get home. I wouldn't get paid for this.

I just couldn't cope in the end.

Sorry this has turned into me spouting anecdotes of my lowly past ha

No usual suspect i dont agree with her at all. i just dont know how to copy and paste 2 things in the same post

I was about to say, does having money automatically make you a good parent now?

My post about the Hope Centre is copied and pasted from this article.

www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/jul/18/food-banks-on-hand-outs

Its more than enough to live off of and to save for the future from, which is why many Europeans come to the UK to work in the jobs the feckless refuse to get off their bums for
no, it is not, it is not a 'living wage', which is why so many of those europeans who come here live 3 or 4 to a room, being young and single then that is possible. Any immigrants who come here as a family, and work for MW, would be on tax credits/housing benefits like the rest of us.