I do not understand why people have kids when they can not afford them.

[sea74]

I know this topic will create lots of critics but i want to share my thoughts and see if anyone agrees or i am the odd one out.
I come from a european country where the fertility rate is 1.4 that is each woman/family has 1.4 child. Grandparents very often are the to help, but women (and men) are responsible enough not to have children if they can not afford them or look after them.
I grew up thinking that i want children not because i want them for me but because i have to donate life and their life must be a good life. Children are not mine but they are individuals.

Having said that, when i moved to the UK, i realised how things are different.
I feel that many people think children will not change their lives, they get pregnant easily, they do not really worry too much (and take contraception) in order to avoid pregnancies.
Then, when they have the child, you see that often these children live in broken families, or the single mothers do not have 50 pounds to buy them a decent meal, or they are left in front of the tv all summer because they had not planned childcare is expensive and grandparents live far.

Children should be planned carefully, i think and it is very selfish to have them without thinking of (and being ready for) the consequences.

Do you get tax credits marianne ?

NMW is most def not a liveable wage!

Here is the thing: as a company, you start up. You provide a valuable service that contributes to the nations GDP. You expand a bit. You decide to employ someone young to help out. You pay them what the company can AFFORD. If there is someone out there who is prepared to work for what the company can AFFORD, then you hire them.

If you do away with minimum wage, companies will more than likely not be able to afford to employ people. SME's will financially only be able to afford to employ half the people they could have employed before.

The bottom line will continue. Profit will continue. But unemployment will increase...

Maybe the raising cost of living has passed you by. well done.

I wonder if the endless bleating about not having enough money (when both partners work) is often just that - bleating.

Speaking as someone who worked in retail for £5 per hour for years and managed just fine. Although we did leave having children until we were more financially secure.

I understand that KickTheGuru , but people on here moan about people claiming benefits in order to have a family.

What choice do they have if they are only paid NMW?

Tax credits - we have applied a year ago but are still waiting for a decision.

KickTheGuru - how do you know what the company can AFFORD. it depends how much profit some of these greedy companies want to make. And obviously in the current climate people are willing to work for much less, so the employers are MILKING IT and reaping the benefits.

It should be more closely leglisglated.

Well we lived in a cardboard box MarianneM , never did us any harm

And our country DOES do for the less and carry the poor. Have you seen the unemployment benefits? The NHS?

Contrary to the idea of the rest of the world, you can't introduce a system into a country of "everyone pulls their own weight" when the only people who do pull their own weight aren't on long-term unemployment benefits.

The trouble is that even in that instance, the slightly rich will carry the losers.

My DH came from a very poor background, didn't go to university, didn't study, has dyslexia and ADHD and in spite of that, has worked his ASS off to be in the position he is in. But the perception is that he is "rich" and therefore should pay for some loser from the same background with the same opportunities, who did nothing to better themselves?

Why should any country enhance that perception??

"novack its enough to save for a future in eastern Europe etc. A lot of economic immigrants are here short term, to save."
I am in eastern europe at the moment. Raging inflation and serious long term social problems from what I see here. My feeling is that a lot of economic migrants will stay.

Ghost

My DH is currently (and does anyway) work a 40 hour week at work and then he comes home and works on his idea for his company until 3am. He then gets up at 7am and goes back to his company to work.

Why the fuck should any muppet have the RIGHT to say what he should pay? How DARE you suggest that his time away from his family with his ideas and drive should be legislated so that someone else gets a "fair" share of HIS hard work? He's been working on perfecting this for 2 years.

What have YOU done to deserve that?

What about the people who works their arse off for NMW?

Having kids left me disabled. From a full time worker in a relationship with another full time worker, to years on my own in pain raising children the best I can with the minimum the government says I need to live on. Plans change, shit happens, life goes on. We can't all get it exactly right, there are difficulties out there along a broad spectrum that cause children to be born to families who have problems affording them. Generally found that condemning the individual against looking at the societal cause is unhelpful though.

Yeah yeah usualsuspect, but if your circumstances are that bad, you should adjust your expectations accordingly. I absolutely don't think people are entitled to whatever they want, be they rich or poor.

I can't stand the self-righteous, pitiful attitude of people who honestly think they should be paid from the broken back of people who work their asses off.

The attitude is very sad. And that's why there will always be a disparity in term so of wage and earnings.

Some people know that they aren't going to have it land in their lap.
Others will bitch about anything that falls from the sky and lands ANYWHERE that it didn't land closer to them, surrounded by light and a message from their god begging them to take it, hold it and WIN WIN WIN (loser)

SEA74 do you now see why what you have observed (valid though it is) is unlikely to change in the UK?

Everybody is entitled to procreate and get as many children as they could possibly want, whether or not they are fit to care for them, or can afford them. The government will pick up the bill, naturally. It is not survival of the fittest here, at all! Rather the opposite

How dare you suggest that people on minimum wage don't fucking deserve any more.

BTW usual, I'd be interested to hear how you vote.

kick

For one, calm the fuck down.

For two, so you'd be okay with him paying a minimum wage then so you could be raking it in? HIS HARD WORK, which I assume he'll need OTHER PEOPLE to help him do. Just because he worked on the initial stages doesn't mean he should only ever be the one to make any decent money from the company. What the fuck sort of attitude is that.

Why should some MUPPET be able to pay me minimum wage just so he can become rich, whilst I have to claim benefits just to enable myself enough to get by.

Your posts were making a bit of sense until you came out with corker.

who, me?

I work so hard in my shitty job. I am educated, I want to earn more but there is no other oppurtunity for me in this area. Can't move away as then ex would see dd even less than one day a week which is unfair on her.

I DO WORK MY ASS OFF YOU COMPLETE AND UTTER FUCKWIT.

YOU try doing 70 hour weeks at 4.83 an hour. Would you?? Thankfully I've moved jobs since then but I did that for two years. I originally started at 3.63.

The attitude of some people is infuriating. Just remember who does all those tasks that you don't deem important. You wouldn't be anywhere were it not for us lower paid workers. The country would collapse.

As I wrote earlier the entitled, me, me, me, anti-immigrant brigade are out in force tonight happy to have everyone else provide for them and their broods.