I do not understand why people have kids when they can not afford them.

[sea74]

I know this topic will create lots of critics but i want to share my thoughts and see if anyone agrees or i am the odd one out.
I come from a european country where the fertility rate is 1.4 that is each woman/family has 1.4 child. Grandparents very often are the to help, but women (and men) are responsible enough not to have children if they can not afford them or look after them.
I grew up thinking that i want children not because i want them for me but because i have to donate life and their life must be a good life. Children are not mine but they are individuals.

Having said that, when i moved to the UK, i realised how things are different.
I feel that many people think children will not change their lives, they get pregnant easily, they do not really worry too much (and take contraception) in order to avoid pregnancies.
Then, when they have the child, you see that often these children live in broken families, or the single mothers do not have 50 pounds to buy them a decent meal, or they are left in front of the tv all summer because they had not planned childcare is expensive and grandparents live far.

Children should be planned carefully, i think and it is very selfish to have them without thinking of (and being ready for) the consequences.

Can someone answer my 2 questions please?

Sometimes things happen.

Either

a. contraception doesn't work
b. it happens when someone was young, foolish or intoxicated
c. someone chooses to and thinks how they will deal with it later.

Now although it seems silly to walk in and start to try for kids/have a kid when you can't afford it, sometimes people just want to give a lot of love to a child. You don't have to be rich to do that, just have enough to live in a comfortable/stable state.

For those in section a, perhaps they don't want an abortion - perhaps they feel their prayers have been answered.

What about for those who aren't very academic and can't get high flying jobs, should they not then be allowed to procreate?

I understand your ideal, but in theory it's a bit judgy.

Oh btw means biscuit.

What sidelines denise?

The thing is though whilst I support things like the Living Wage Campaign, if everyone then gets paid that fair wage then it will effect everything else. Prices will go up bevause people can afford more. And we'll be back to square one.

But I suppose we'd be able to scrap benefits so we wouldn't really

NMW + benefits = feckless scrounger

And a point - I don't agree with the OP (mostly - although the teenage thing is 100% correct)

However, the implication that a business should pay a maximum wage is ludicrous. If the business paid one person double, on average - another person would lose their job.

And who are YOU to say which employee should that job?

Some people are clearly so concerned about capitalism that they expect double the pay at the risk of taking the next persons' job and their money. So that person is worth NOTHING?

What's more important? Having a job with income or not having job / no income?

And then obviously claiming the benefits that the company pays taxes towards?

Well erm we do have one of the eu highest teenage pregnancy rates.

So just pay everyone minimum wage then.

Just as a simple answer to your question: there is never a right time. I mind more if people have given no thought about how they're going to care for them - by that I mean see to all their needs, play with them, read with them, spend time with them. I find that irresponsible. But financials - change all the time. What was the case this year, may not be the case next year. In these times it's not something people can have control over any more. For example, my dh has a well paid job today. He could lose it tomorrow and then we'd lose our income and our home. It's very different to my grandad who was employed by a large corporation for all of his working life.

People bitch about Africa and all the jobs created and paid for on a minimum wage.

My suggestion is to fire all those people who are on minimum wage doing "menial" jobs and get the "bitcher" to find alternative employment for those people.

Once that is done, you can park the flying pig in the garage on my 5 bedroom house in the country.

usualsuspect - you say you are poor and your partner only has agency work - what about you, do you work?

(you seem to have a lot of time to spend here)

So who decides who is only worth minimum wage?

Yes I do work

DO you?

Nice one ;)

Yes - had a day off today.

Not quite getting why people think the system we have is the only option?? I mean you either like paying the minimum and all that leads to with the understanding that the inequality at the heart of our country causes social problems. Or you accept that there are alternatives.

Other countries do things dfferently, interestingly the more equal ones tend to have fewer social problems. It seems Personal Responsibility goes hand in hand with collective responsibility, it depends what kind of society you want. It does seem mad to me that we have lots of research that points to somethings actually working and people still bang their heads against certain brickwalls desperatly wanting something that is achievable in other places by doing things differently than we do.

"So who decides who is only worth minimum wage?"
The employer, who else?

Just wondering why you can't manage if both of you work.

My DH is a SAHP at the moment and we manage fine - I never feel poor.

iloveberries im proud of many things my income isant one of them.

I'm still laughing at the comment that nmw is enough to live comfortably and save for the future

We hardly pay "the minimum" in this country!

Good for you. and?

I never said we can't manage

Obviously they both manage Marianne that much is clear.

Denise - if we didn't get paid the minimum why are there top up benefits.