I do not understand why people have kids when they can not afford them.

[sea74]

I know this topic will create lots of critics but i want to share my thoughts and see if anyone agrees or i am the odd one out.
I come from a european country where the fertility rate is 1.4 that is each woman/family has 1.4 child. Grandparents very often are the to help, but women (and men) are responsible enough not to have children if they can not afford them or look after them.
I grew up thinking that i want children not because i want them for me but because i have to donate life and their life must be a good life. Children are not mine but they are individuals.

Having said that, when i moved to the UK, i realised how things are different.
I feel that many people think children will not change their lives, they get pregnant easily, they do not really worry too much (and take contraception) in order to avoid pregnancies.
Then, when they have the child, you see that often these children live in broken families, or the single mothers do not have 50 pounds to buy them a decent meal, or they are left in front of the tv all summer because they had not planned childcare is expensive and grandparents live far.

Children should be planned carefully, i think and it is very selfish to have them without thinking of (and being ready for) the consequences.

Because people of your ilk , think that £6,08 is a living wage.

It comes down to whether you think the measure of a person, of a parent is fully and only reflected in their wages/the tax they pay....

I don't

It seems, at times, to actually be an inverse correlation

Define "a living wage".

Where would I get money from to pay them this extra? Put my prices up?

Do you think people who run small businesses are wrong to want to make a profit? Do you not think we deserve something in exchange for the risks we take, such as taking out a 15 year lease, and spending money on fixtures etc to open the business in the first place?

You're seeing it 2D aren't you. I'd find it more important to build a loyal, stable staff base rather than paying someone to come in and work for minimum wage. They're much likely to move on more quickly, which increases turnover which isn't good. Better paid staff would also have more stable lives themselves, making them better for work and not as likely to have dramas like lack of childcare, transport trouble etc.

It's a massive web and we could get really complex but it's obvious you aren't interested in that. You just want to pay the minimum so you can have more to yourself. Short term for yourself, ok. Long term? There's so much more.

Its more than enough to live off of and to save for the future from, which is why many Europeans come to the UK to work in the jobs the feckless refuse to get off their bums for.

No you are right to make a profit, but the people who you employ for minimum wage have a right to a decent standard of living too.

And, haha at denise, spouting all this crap whilst paying her staff minimum wage

Turnover of staff is good. Why do you think Navy boys toasted for a war? As staff turnover creates opportunities for others to move up. It's the lefties that don´t want turnover as they might not be top union shop steward anymore and miss their gravy train.

Oh there we go. I wondered when someone would pull that card out. 'immigrants doing the jobs we don't want to do'

What a load of fucking bollocks. I'm sorry but no. You obviously have no clue of what it's like in the real world if you come out with that overused phrase. A few of my mates right now would shovel shit if they could. Just to be earning a bit of money.

The immigration factor is another reason I couldn't get a pay rise in my old job. They had a agency of Nigerian workers than would jump straight in my place was I ever to want more.

So what's the answer? Why is the work I do not worth even NMW? and why does taking any job no matter how crap rather than staying unemployed after redundancy make me feckless?

Well, denise, you know if you can't afford staff, you shouldn't really have them......

Maybe wait, until a time in your life when you can. Or when you are in a secure relationship with a rich man who will enable you to pay staff enough that they dont need to claim benefits

Novack - no it isn't. It means wasting time training people. It means people who know what they're doing leaving the company and going elsewhere. It's a bad thing. And we're talking about minimum wage jobs here.

I employ four members of staff, 2 of which have worked for me since the business opened 4 years ago. All of my staff have stable lives as far as I am aware.

My mums friend is a very wealthy man, owns construction firms all over the show. He wouldn't dream of paying his staff minimum wage. He says you get out wha you put in.

So really ghostship this is just about you and your anti-immigrant views.

Yes they have stable lives because they can claim WTC etc. Thats why you pay them minimum wage.

So even the ones who have worked for you for 4 years still only get NMW?

Novack - how you've come to that conclusion from one statement I don't know. Anti immigrant views? anti employers undercutting staff and not giving them the chance to excel because cheaper workers are available, that's what I am.

Denise - some people don't really understand basic economics. Wouldn't say it's your job to educate them unless they erm...pay you (minimum wage, of course!) ;)

oh why dont you off in the general direction of fuck.

I had the cheek to have 3 children and being a poor single mum i couldnt resist a buy 1 get 1 free option

I understand perfectly well that employers know the government will top up peoples wages.

I think some people should start businesses and put their money where their mouth is. It's very easy to snipe from the sidelines.

novack its enough to save for a future in eastern Europe etc. A lot of economic immigrants are here short term, to save. They live in over crowded conditions to save in rent/bills etc. They are mostly not here to stay and raise families

Oh OP you can fuck the fuck off and keep fucking off some more! I am a single mum, 1 dd. I could afford to have my dd and the plan was to be a sahm but my ex became abusive and then left me when dd was 4 months old. I am now working in a NMW job part time as thats all I could get despite having a masters degree. My dd was planned and wanted. Insread of judging single mothers from up there on your pedestal why don't you judge the huge amount of feckless fathers that walk out on their children and fail to provide for them financially/emotionally instead of the mother trying her best

Oh we're all thick and don't know about economics now...

I suggest some people educate themselves.

Henry Ford is a good place (or rather person) to start.

Economics - The Basics 101

"The government" = taxes.
Business + Taxes = Government
Business - Taxes - Staff = recession
Recession = government income - benefits
Benefits = BUSINESS TAXES