I do not understand why people have kids when they can not afford them.

[sea74]

I know this topic will create lots of critics but i want to share my thoughts and see if anyone agrees or i am the odd one out.
I come from a european country where the fertility rate is 1.4 that is each woman/family has 1.4 child. Grandparents very often are the to help, but women (and men) are responsible enough not to have children if they can not afford them or look after them.
I grew up thinking that i want children not because i want them for me but because i have to donate life and their life must be a good life. Children are not mine but they are individuals.

Having said that, when i moved to the UK, i realised how things are different.
I feel that many people think children will not change their lives, they get pregnant easily, they do not really worry too much (and take contraception) in order to avoid pregnancies.
Then, when they have the child, you see that often these children live in broken families, or the single mothers do not have 50 pounds to buy them a decent meal, or they are left in front of the tv all summer because they had not planned childcare is expensive and grandparents live far.

Children should be planned carefully, i think and it is very selfish to have them without thinking of (and being ready for) the consequences.

Our benefits system supports those who fall on hard times and long may it continue. Nobody could have an issue with those who lose their job or whose circumstances change dramatically.

Novak is right - this isn't about who pays who, what, how much, when and why.

And wordfactory, I'm still amazed and grateful that I managed to get a university degree with a free grant, free tuition fees and leave without an overdraft. I was very very lucky.

Some people get given better opportunities in life that are dependant on all sort of factors, especially their parents class and the area they live in. So those born in a good area and to rich parents are more likely to be able to have babies. How is that fair?

No matter how hard some people work in life, they don't get rich. They have to scrape by. I scrape by. If I had a baby I'd scrape by a little more!

Also, I didn't read the OP as being all about poverty/benefits anyway.

It also seemed to raise the question of how unrealistic we Brits can be about DC. And I do think there's some truth there.
All the time people seem shocked to discover how expensive childcare is. Or that there are long school holidays. Or that there are no summer camps...

How can people not know this stuff?

It's like they have babies without any sense of realism. I think immigrants coming into the UK do find it odd.

ghostship I know what you mean, my P.A, is bloody well trained - so far she is one of only two people who can assist me safely, and she didn't need much time to adapt to that. She works with adults with learning disabilities plus either mental health problems like schitsophrenia or PTSD or challenging behaviour (think of someone who will sit for hours asking you what the time is, pinch you every opportunity and punch you if you do something they don't like) for an agency at minimum wage. I'd pay her more if I could but the LA sets the rate. She's trained in mental health first aid, mental capacity and decision making, moving and handling and a bunch of other things I can't remember. I don't know anyone else who has the training or experience to do the work she does, but it's still just minimum wage - skill level seems irrelevant.

lucky, what a key word in this thread.

Yep, our class system still rules the roost and makes me very cross INDEED! I've still to see a totally equal set of opportunities for everyone but I wonder if anything will ever change...ever.

Families who work hard and live their lives sensibly seem to have lucky children, don't they? Funny that.

Trickle - I sound the same as her. I left that side of work because I couldn't cope with getting the shit kicked out of me for minimum wage :( was such a shame because I loved most of the people I worked for. I honestly don't know how they can have such gall to pay people so low. It makes me sad when I see documentaries about abuse in care homes... A lot of that is down to low pay, poor training and minimal staffing.

Wasn't there a golfer (quite famous) who made the comment that the harder he worked the luckier he got?

sally I don;'t have to do very much in life. But I do feel many things are my responsibility in respetc of my family.
Seeing my DC through tertiraty education is one of them.

Again the assumption that only the well off work hard.

ghost I ahve no issue with people scraping by. I don't think you need to be or have to be rich to have a family.

What I do have an issue with it people who are clearly not coping with their families and daily lives as it is and still adding more DC to the mix.

Denise34 - when I was 6 weeks old my dad was killed. My mum then became a single parent and for a spell we even lived in a caravan. I wasn't given the best start to life. She was then depressed throughout my childhood. Education became a back seat but I got bloody good grades just through naturally being intelligent. I tried to better myself, was going to go to uni to do my degree but then my mum got diagnosed as having a brain tumour. So yet again it had to take a backseat. So I got my ass up and got myself a job.
And now I've got idiots on this thread saying I shouldn't be able to have a baby? I've come so bloody far with nothing, I'll go even further with very little.

And that's not a sob story, it's just a bit of perspective that not everyone has perfect fucking lives and perfect parents and perfect opportunities.

As I said, I can understand the desire, but I still think it's disingenuous to claim you have to.

My parents weren't able to give me any financial support through university. I don't think of them as having shirked their responsibilities.

Word factory - that's fair enough, but not everyone is thinking like that. I agree that numerous babies shouldn't be brought into the mix. But we simply cannot deny people children on the basis of them maybe having to claim a benefit along the way..

wordfactory you've hit it on the head. So many people in the UK seem to think they're stars of their own reality show and hey they'll have a baby to get a some more attention without ever thinking of the childs needs for the next 18 25 years at all because hey someone else will pay for that wont they.

Im quite glad I dont work for Denise. Her attitude towards her staff is exactly the problem in this country.

People wont want to make money for you if you dont value them. Being a boss isnt about telling people what to do. Its about treating your staff with respect and in turn nurturing a team environment which will show through in your bottom line.

This attitude is just on a bigger scale when it comes to our government.

Fucking hell, £50 for a meal?! I managed to buy shopping for 4 for a week for £50. (DD is in Scotland with her dad).

WTF are they eating? Gold plated fillet steak accompanied by some platinum plated asparagus?!

I'll send my goat back, I'm obviously not doing too well with this feeding the DC's properly because I'm not spending £50 on a meal.

And it's not crap either - tonight we had barbecue ribs and stir fry, all homemade including sauces. Lots of veg in the stir fry.

I must go and flagellate myself, if a meal didn't cost me £50, and I lost my career after being diagnosed with epilepsy AFTER my third child was born. I'll go and polish the fucking crystal ball while I'm at it, shall I?!

Er, CouthyMow, we've sort of moved on a bit from the OP.

That's just proper made me laugh because it's so random :o ^

ghostship so true. people complain about the way some carers treat people, but the way the system is devised it encourages only people who can't do any better, rather than those who are best at the role to do the work.

I'm ashamed of how much I have to pay my P.A. it's pathetic for the ammount of difference and dignity she brings to my life. I try to balance it by managing her well and with respect, it's the least I can do - and there is at least some balance to the mix. I need her (like really really need her!) but she gets a flexibleish working environment, respect and a consistent wage even if it is rubbish. I know I'm on a whole other topic here, but I don't see why it's so hard for other people with proper managerial training and experience to work like that too, with respect and regard for the people working under them.

How can anyone have 1.4 child? When I got pregnant by mistake we couldn't afford a child neither were entitled to benefits. We survived and now we have a lovely comfortable life 5 years on.

How can anyone have 1.4 child? When I got pregnant by mistake we couldn't afford a child neither were entitled to benefits. We survived and now we have a lovely comfortable life 5 years on.

Trickle I'm sure her knowing how much you appreciate her is enough. That's all I ever wanted. You seem like such a nice person!

Well the OP was kinda ridiculous.