I do not understand why people have kids when they can not afford them.

[sea74]

I know this topic will create lots of critics but i want to share my thoughts and see if anyone agrees or i am the odd one out.
I come from a european country where the fertility rate is 1.4 that is each woman/family has 1.4 child. Grandparents very often are the to help, but women (and men) are responsible enough not to have children if they can not afford them or look after them.
I grew up thinking that i want children not because i want them for me but because i have to donate life and their life must be a good life. Children are not mine but they are individuals.

Having said that, when i moved to the UK, i realised how things are different.
I feel that many people think children will not change their lives, they get pregnant easily, they do not really worry too much (and take contraception) in order to avoid pregnancies.
Then, when they have the child, you see that often these children live in broken families, or the single mothers do not have 50 pounds to buy them a decent meal, or they are left in front of the tv all summer because they had not planned childcare is expensive and grandparents live far.

Children should be planned carefully, i think and it is very selfish to have them without thinking of (and being ready for) the consequences.

And, to be serious (if you can stop insulting me for a short while, usual suspects) you're right - I reported the "ones I didn't like", ie the racist ones insulting the OP, telling her the f off back to her own country.

But still, never mind. Have another gin.

Why are you poor usual if you don't mind me asking.

Telling someone to fuck off back to their own country is just a pile of racist shit. Posters are only defendiong it because they don't like what the OP is saying.

It's not racist.
If you came round to my house and started complaining about the decor, my cleaning methods, the layout of my furniture or what i choose to buy for my home, i'd tell you to fuck off back to yours if you didn't like it. It's the same thing.

If i say to the OP 'Fuck off back to italy you Insert racial slur against itallians here' then that is racist.

Because my DP got made redundant and now does shity paid agency work is that OK?

Krumbum, I could run the business on my own, it'd just mean I couldn't serve as many customers.

Minimum wage aint all it's cracked up to be. I am sure I am not the only one who immediately got a pay cut when the concept was introduced. Well I know I' not there were many, many of us and it sucked.

Well I can afford both my children. Unless I lose my job. Or DH does. Or we get divorced. Or get ill. Or have an accident. If only there were such guarantees...

Clearly not usual.

Have you not got a crystal ball?

But Tal you must have guarantees otherwise you shouldn't have Children.

There are always imponderables in life. None of us can predict the future with accuracy.

But we can assess what is likely to happen at any given time. And right now with htis government and this economy, we can make fair assessments vis a vis benefits, I think.

So you could cook and serve at the same time. That's amazing

Krumbrum this thread is not about how much anyone else pays their staff. If you have a problem with a poster why not send them a private message instead of trying to kill off the discussion about the OP's point.

Don't take this to PM. Thats not on IMO.

And it is about how much people get paid surely?

Don't have kids, adopt MN posters who behave like them for free

wordfactory it is a worry - and actually due to the way benefits run it can be an annual one due to incompetance and the need to appeal. (currently have been denied something we are entitled to under law as someone at the DWP cannot be bothered to read). If that happens we have family and friends we can rely on for support short term. However I'm not sure how much that situation differs from being in work on short contracts/in positions dependant on funding. Two years after I left my post due to disability I would have been made redundant anyway due to funding cuts. DH's whole department has dissappeared and the college he was working at made 700 people redundant.

If they make drastic changes to the system (as they did for tax credits working hours requirement recently) we have a few options depending on how old our child is and wether they are in nursery or school. Worst case scenario is we split, DH becomes a single parent and works in the area he is retraining in (he'd be better off of he didn't have to support me anyway). We did sit down and think about this, probably more than most couples who don't have to consider disability at all. It is unlikely we would have all support withdrawn within the next 5 years (permanently anyway, up to a year during appeal is possible) as I have met the criteria for even the most draconian legislation that's been drawn up and then discarded.

Also as I work my way through 'the system' things get a little better - like that I can now volunteer as I have an adequate wheelchair that I can actually sit in, or the fact that I can have a shower if I like - and have been abel to for the last 8 months, still a bit of a novelty. When people talk about moving towards the workplace I often think they overlook these simple things, I'm pretty far from the workplace atm but I've not given up on finding the right combo of experience, management, support and equipment (btw it would be more expensive to support someone like me into work than it is to leave me at home - I do wonder how free market capitalists think about that)

Well it is relevant because it is one of the reasons that people can or cannot afford to have children.
Debates evolve. Go into other issues that are related.

How much a person is earning is relevant. But not how much they should be earning, or how much they would like to be earning.

When we decide to have a family we sadly aren't offered an ancilliary wish list. Though that would be great.

For instance, I would liek tertiary education to be free. Indeed, I think it's immoral that it isn't. But it's not so hey ho. I must save up. Yes, I can campaign about it. But I must still save too, as let's be honest, it's not going to change before my DC get there.

Why have you got to save up for tertiary education?

It's about I do not understand why people have kids when they can not afford them Not, why does poster x pay y wages and poster z has a problem with it.

It's simple really if you are poor why bring a life into the world that you cannot afford to provide for without relying on everyone else's charity.

It's not against those who paid in to the system them found themselves on hard times and then needed the safety net of the welfare state.

Does anyone think they will divorce when they are young and in love?

Does anyone think they will develop crippling diseases a few short years later when they are young and fit?

Does anyone think they will have to take a pay cut when their trade

Because it costs a lot and is set to cost more in the future.
Loans only cover fees. My DC will need to live and eat and have fun.
Also, I'm unsure whether I want them to begin their adult life, in debt at all.

So I'll save. It's wrong. Totally wrong. But it is as it is.

wordfactory While I can totally understand your desire to help your DC with university costs, there are loans and grants (depending on your income) for living costs. And they could always work.

So, it might be very desirable for you to help them financially, it's not that you have to.

I do not think University will be the universal middle-class right of passage that it has been for the last 20 years or so. You will have to have a clear career path in mind for it to be worth going. Which is as it should be, really.

is booming?

This stuff all happens. Savings only last so long. Could be any one of us in that "feckless" situation tbh.