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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

I do not understand why people have kids when they can not afford them.

727 replies

sea74 · 07/08/2012 10:15

I know this topic will create lots of critics but i want to share my thoughts and see if anyone agrees or i am the odd one out.
I come from a european country where the fertility rate is 1.4 that is each woman/family has 1.4 child. Grandparents very often are the to help, but women (and men) are responsible enough not to have children if they can not afford them or look after them.
I grew up thinking that i want children not because i want them for me but because i have to donate life and their life must be a good life. Children are not mine but they are individuals.

Having said that, when i moved to the UK, i realised how things are different.
I feel that many people think children will not change their lives, they get pregnant easily, they do not really worry too much (and take contraception) in order to avoid pregnancies.
Then, when they have the child, you see that often these children live in broken families, or the single mothers do not have 50 pounds to buy them a decent meal, or they are left in front of the tv all summer because they had not planned childcare is expensive and grandparents live far.

Children should be planned carefully, i think and it is very selfish to have them without thinking of (and being ready for) the consequences.

OP posts:
holidaywoe · 07/08/2012 13:37

icecold at what point have I insisted in saying that? Not saying its the womens fault at all it takes two to make a baby. But as the women gets left with the fall out I for one know that unless I was wanting a baby, sex without precautions is an absolute no no.
Gin30 in answer to your question yes this would include my husband as we can not afford to have another child, we know this as we have looked carefully at our financial situation, and therefore to do this would be totally irresponsible!

Gin30 · 07/08/2012 13:44

Sorry i agree with you pumpkin Men need to take the blame too.

I just get sick of people slagging off single mums and assuming its their fault for being slags.

I wanted to add that its not always the womans fault for sleeping with feckless men with no protection.

Sometimes people are in what they think are stable relationships but then it goes wrong.

LesleyPumpshaft · 07/08/2012 13:46

Sometimes people are in what they think are stable relationships but then it goes wrong.

Yes, why is this so hard for some people to grasp. It's not rocket surgery Hmm

achillea · 07/08/2012 13:50

I've not read the whole thread but...

It's a bit difficult to have 1.4 children according to the trend in OP's native country.

The sad fact is that human beings die, have accidents, or lose their marbles at which point they are no longer economically active. Realistic people know that and that is one of the very sensible reasons they have more than two children, whether they can afford them or not.

This is individualistic nonsense. Adults don't just support children, families and societies support each other and each others children.

ByTheWay1 · 07/08/2012 13:51

I don't want to end benefits - just take it back to what it used to be - a safety net, not a way of life.

Child benefit and child tax credits have made us all (me included) part of the benefits dependency society...

I was huffin' and puffin' at the gall of "the government" in getting rid of both for folks with one high earner - then realised just how daft it is to complain about something being taken away that in the big wider world should not really have been given to all in the first place.

holidaywoe · 07/08/2012 13:52

Things do go wrong and no one an see into the future but that really is not the point of the OPs post.
I have no problem with people using/claiming benefits to support them through difficult times or when circumanstances change.
What I and the OP (I think) have a problem with is people who get pregnant when they are already in financial difficulty or they know that they do not have the means to support a child.

threeleftfeet · 07/08/2012 13:56

I got pregnant by accident. DP moved country to be with us, making himself unemployed.

We really struggled at first.

The only safe sex is no sex. (Contraceptive failure is real). What do you suggest? That poor people don't have sex? Or that they abort their children?

Should I have aborted my child OP? Angry

AbsolutelyNotHoneyDragon · 07/08/2012 13:56

This reply has been deleted

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threeleftfeet · 07/08/2012 13:57

"This is individualistic nonsense. Adults don't just support children, families and societies support each other and each others children."

well said.

Gin30 · 07/08/2012 13:57

But some people are on low wages. They work hard but the wages are crap.
Are they not allowed to have children because it would mean they have to rely on top ups to take care of their children.

So it is saying that only rich people can have children. What about street cleaners, Care workers etc? Are they not allowed to have families?

AbsolutelyNotHoneyDragon · 07/08/2012 13:58

I got pregnant with out having sex

Well according to the Midwife I did anyway

Gin30 · 07/08/2012 13:59

AbsolutelyNotHoneyDragon Is your name Mary?

usualsuspect · 07/08/2012 14:00

Nope not allowed to actually have children , allowed to be paid shite wages to look after the children of the rich though.

TheQueenOfDiamonds · 07/08/2012 14:00

Ive said it before but why does no one including people at the sexual health clinics ever reccommend using two forms of contraception!

Not everyone can use two methods of contraception.

pumpkinsweetie · 07/08/2012 14:00

Exactly what Gin said-Is it only the rich that should have children?
Does being rich automatically make you a better parent?

LesleyPumpshaft · 07/08/2012 14:01

Gin30 Don't be so bloody ridiculous. Poor people should eat lentils and attone for their morally wrong ways. Perhaps public floggings are the answer. Bring back the stocks!

Ann3 · 07/08/2012 14:01

I had 4 and now I'm a single widow, and a teacher .... so it's ALL my fault, feckess kids useless system, life is So neat and tidy doncha know :)))))))

pumpkinsweetie · 07/08/2012 14:03

Atleast we won't be sticking our kids in boarding schools and letting the nanny and cook bring them upGrin

plonko · 07/08/2012 14:04

I have to say that this is one of the most entertaining threads I've lurked in a long time. Very interested to find the thread about pre-cut fruit Grin- will look later.

I'm 25, been engaged almost a year, and 3 months pregnant with my first. DP and I met at uni, we're both fairly ambitious- I now work my socks off on a graduate scheme. We thought it was the right time for us to start a family, but the plot thickens! When I discovered I was pregnant my DP had just jacked in a steady job that he hated in order to pursue his dream career. This meant he begun working for a complete bastard friend, who didn't pay him a single penny for 6 weeks. We have since survived on just my income (which is not much) and qualified for zero state help - but you're right OP, we created this situation for ourselves, right? We experienced a sudden drop in income, one that we hadn't foreseen, and that we are expecting a child we probably 'can't afford'. Let's forget the facts because it's convenient.

We could have put off having children for another ten years, cos hopefully we'll have more money by then, but my crystal ball's broken (and I clearly can't afford a replacement). Things are tight for us but I do not begrudge paying taxes if it means someone else's children get hot meals.

So, OP, what's the point of having a welfare state if you condemn its use?

LapisBlue · 07/08/2012 14:07

I'm not the OP, plonko so I can't speak for her, but no, you didn't create this situation yourselves.

And I've not seen anywhere in her original post a condemnation either of the welfare state nor of its use. Confused

achillea · 07/08/2012 14:08

holiday whatever intentions one may have about having kids, the chances are you will have one and then, statistically speaking another 0.4 of a child, by which time you will have to stop working. Nobody can work with 2 under 5s without £££s worth of childcare and it is then their choice whether to go out and earn to pay someone else those £££s to look after their children. Many choose to do the job themselves and occasionally this means that, because of ridiculously over-inflated rents and house prices, they cannot live on one income and need state support.

In fact they are supporting the state themselves by not accepting the state's funding for childcare. The more children they have at once the more financially beneficial it is to the state and with any luck they will be economically active again within a few years and provided a wonderful childcare service and provided the economy with several keen taxpayers to look after them and others that were not able to have more children to support them, in their old age.

wannabedomesticgoddess · 07/08/2012 14:09

Im interested in hearing the policies which make the OPs country so wonderful. Perhaps she could then write to David Cameron. The guy lost his clue a while ago, and while he swans around number 10 trying to find it its the women of the country who get the blame.

Poor people are not "thickos" and the posters who consider the lower classes second class citizens are disgusting IMO.

Yes, there are people who choose a life on benefits, and who have children with little thought. But to tarnish a whole country which you choose to live in with that sweeping judgement is ridiculous.

As for us being entitled, are we not? Are we not entitled to have decent wages for the work we do? Or to have a government which listens to all its people and not just those with healthy bank balances? Or to expect better standards of living than we have right now?

LapisBlue · 07/08/2012 14:13

As for us being entitled, are we not? Are we not entitled to have decent wages for the work we do? Or to have a government which listens to all its people and not just those with healthy bank balances? Or to expect better standards of living than we have right now?

Yes, to all of the above.

No (in my view) to feeling entitled to more and more and more and more JUST because our "system" allows it.

No (in my view) to to money money money because you CHOOSE to have children. I'd like a new car so I think I'll write to David Cameron and ask for one. What? I have to pay for it, you say?

AbsolutelyNotHoneyDragon · 07/08/2012 14:14

Nope. Had gone to GP with stomach bug, - which was actually ds. Was on depo so no periods. Had scan.

MW: Right so according to this you are 8 weeks or there abouts?

HD: I don't think that's right?

MW: well give a take a week or so either way you definitely got PG in August.

HD: DH was away in August for 4 weeks

MW: Are you sure? Did you have sex at all in August?

HD: Yes I am very sure. Dh got back on the 3rd of September we would have had sex then.

MW: Well that wouldn't be right, not september.

MW: So how did you get pg? Confused

HD: Confused

plonko · 07/08/2012 14:15

Lapis I was responding to this part of OP's post "women (and men) are responsible enough not to have children if they can not afford them", and the few who have suggested taking benefits is wrong.

Luckily the many see it as a realistic solution to a short term problem.