Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wonder what Black athletes have....

544 replies

CrispyCod · 04/08/2012 21:21

......that make them so superior in performance. It has to be genetic. I am in awe of them as they appear to glide effortlessly around the track. The Jamaican athletes are just wow! Their speed is just amazing.

OP posts:
Changlingz · 14/08/2012 23:43

Right-on people can't cope with being called racist.

Some posts on here are more racist than he bnp.

musicismylife · 14/08/2012 23:49

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

worldcitizen · 14/08/2012 23:49

Hello everyone,
even though I have left this thread a while (many pages) ago, I have continued to read, as I am truly glad the OP has posted.
Please do not flame me for this, as I would like to say, that without this thread I would have never been able to read so much about how people think and argue on this matter.

the question about athletes almost became irrelevant, as to me it revealed more how the different takes are of all these posters.

I have seriously learned so much, also what is okay and what not and why.

Does anyone feel the same and it could see the positive in this?!

It is a genuine question.

Changlingz · 14/08/2012 23:58

Musicismlife.

Well said.

viviblue · 15/08/2012 00:13

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

JumpingThroughHoops · 15/08/2012 07:13

The next person to mention Michael Jackson's documentary will have me chasing them around mumsnet

Well, Michael Jackson indeed. There was strange one!

creighton · 15/08/2012 07:19

musicismylife, i don't think it is the whole black race, i think it it more specifically the black people from 'the americas' who are subject to this kind of talk. other people are keen to project their images of who or what we are onto us and want us to conform to it. this includes africans who also think we are less than them, not having their 'pure blood'. if you object to their rudeness they are quick to blame you.

the whole of our existence on the other side of the atlantic has been with other people's interference and they can't stop. in the past it was just racism and using people as work units, denying our humanity, now it is 'intellectual curiosity' and the 'need to understand', although they don't want to understand us as people, just 'entertainment units'. another thread on here had people saying that usain bolt is their favourite person, i bet the same people would cross the road if they saw a 6ft 5in black man walking towards them. usain bolt is allowed a humanity that is not extended to the rest of us.

some of my posts were deleted because i made comments that were 'racist' in the context of answering 'racist' posts. my posts were racist in that they told white people to take a long hard look at themselves rather than bothering black people. apparently a black person is not supposed to say this to white people and the posts were deleted. other people's racists posts were not deleted, mnhq hasn't said why this is the case. maybe they are not very clever people.

CrispyCod · 15/08/2012 07:32

Than you for such an intelligent contribution to the thread viviblue. Hmm

OP posts:
worldcitizen · 15/08/2012 07:57

viviblue

That's uncalled for....it is unfair to make the OP responsible for how this thread unfolded.

I thought we have established many moons ago (really on the first few pages) that the title of the thread is not worded/asked in the best way...and that there have been quite a few ignorant posters...and many, including myself, have asked to keep this thread going, as it truly is serving a great purpose, such as

enlightenment
education
correction of ignorant views
and also teaches how to tackle these ignorant responses and "innocent" questions when raised by others in my surroundings...

Is it not possible to look at it that way?

P.S. vivi, I am sorry, but I will report your post, as it is below the belt...Sad

porcamiseria · 15/08/2012 08:13

viviblue Grin Shock

I am so pleased that some normal people have crept onto this thread and are calling it what it is

and OP stop being so ridiculously huffy when people dont agree

Caoimhe, well said

worldcitizen · 15/08/2012 08:15

creighton

this includes africans who also think we are less than them, not having their 'pure blood'. if you object to their rudeness they are quick to blame you

Unfortunately, in the U.S., I cannot speak for anywhere else, this issue exists, but reversed. There is lots and lots of racism towards Sub-Saharan Africans, in a way which is appalling.
I don't want to repeat here, as it might be used then for other amusement...

another thread on here had people saying that usain bolt is their favourite person, i bet the same people would cross the road if they saw a 6ft 5in black man walking towards them

this I would wholeheartedly agree with. Again, I can only speak about prominent and famous U.S. Americans, and this issue has been raised numerous times.
There is also a famous Eddie Murphy quote, so is there from Denzel Washington, Morgan Freeman, various sportsmen, even Barack Obama has raised this issue, don't get me started about what he has to endure..., and the list goes on.

crescentmoon · 15/08/2012 08:16

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

creighton · 15/08/2012 08:21

no crescentmoon, team gb expected 45 ish medals and got 62 and third place.totally fantastic.

Aboutlastnight · 15/08/2012 08:25

Creighton: are you saying that Usain Bolt is fulfilling an acceptable role for white people, as are the other Olympic athletes? He is in an acceptable place?

It strikes me that attributing some sort of innate physical characteristics to a race leads one down the path of "Well that's what they are good at/born to do and then on to the racial stereotypes particularly around physical strength = entertainer/athlete/manual labourer and not doctor/lawyer/ artist.

creighton · 15/08/2012 08:27

aboutlastnight, this already happened earlier in the thread, the blacks can have the physical superiority the whites can have the intellectual superiority.

usain bolt does allow some white people to like a black person but the like starts and stops with him and does not include the fellow from down the road.

got to go to work

crescentmoon · 15/08/2012 08:35

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

roundtable · 15/08/2012 08:45

Creighton, the sad thing is I now agree with you. Pre this thread, I'm not sure if I would have.

Posters giving out insults, could you stop it? I know it's frustrating to try to get through to someone who has their fingers in their ears and singing la la la, but it doesn't help put the education across that many posters seem to need.

just imagine shaking a bit of common sense into them!

worldcitizen · 15/08/2012 08:50

CrispyCod

It is unfortunate, that lots of people here seemed to have turned on you and feel ganging up on someone is okay Sad.

As I've mentioned above, anyone who read this entire thread OR who would be fair enough to remember, how much we have all posted about your unfortunate wording of the title and how you and others then reacted, could not possibly think it is alright to insult you now.

Lots and lots of people have contributed, lots of educational and very interesting insights.

Lots of excellent views and arguments to why these kind of questions, this kind of wording and "wondering" could also be perceived to be racist and/or hurtful etc.

Crispy if I would be in your shoes, I would call it a day for good to this thread, as you've asked kindly, if you are being unreasonable, and different people have given their view.
And I think, it would be friendlier if people could explain and also passionately defend why you and similar threads, ideas, and "wonderings" are unreasonable.

But aggression and pointing fingers and bullying and ganging-up on someone, well I don't know, that has never brought people and groups closer together Sad

roundtable · 15/08/2012 09:05

Bullying? Really?

IMO, the op doesn't seem to think there's anything wrong with her wording, saying that she's ask the same for 'white people' which is equally preposterous.

I can't see anyone being educated on this thread. Just the same tiresome bleats of the professionally offended. Hopefully some people have read it without posting and had some views challenged.

I won't hold my breath.

worldcitizen · 15/08/2012 09:14

Hello roundtable, I for one feel very educated and have learned so much more than in one seminar, if that makes sense.

laptopwieldingharpy · 15/08/2012 09:22

I hear you worldcitizen.feel exactly the same.

CrispyCod · 15/08/2012 09:25

The black race will only ever be understood by black people

Hmm That is ridiculous.

another thread on here had people saying that usain bolt is their favourite person, i bet the same people would cross the road if they saw a 6ft 5in black man walking towards them. usain bolt is allowed a humanity that is not extended to the rest of us.

usain bolt does allow some white people to like a black person but the like starts and stops with him and does not include the fellow from down the road.

Creighton WTF

OP posts:
iismum · 15/08/2012 09:41

"Perhaps a few people had a TALENT and happened to be black. Now who would have thought that."

82 men have run 100m in under 10s. One of them is white. That is not random chance of who happens to have talent, that is statistically significant.

There are many things that could account for this, as many people have pointed out. White people are just as dominant in other sports such as rowing, equestrianism, cycling. These are much more niche sports that most of the population don't do (well, obviously people cycle, but not many do velodrome cycling), so whilst I have no evidence of the influence of genetics, it seems highly plausible that this is only to do with opportunity and exposure and not to do with genetics. In fact, in France, where cycling is much more high profile, top competitors are much more ethnically mixed - there top velodrome sprinter is black. We cannot know for sure until we have much more equal opportunity. I don't think it's true to say that no one questions why some sports are white-dominated - I think they do. I think the assumption (postulated by others) that white people 'should' be better and therefore we need to question why this is not so for running is an extremely minority view

But with sprinting this argument seems less convincing. Sprinting is high profile. Much more so in the Caribean than in other places, but it is still high profile in most places. Being "the fastest man in the world" has cross-cultural appeal, where being the best at dressage maybe doesn't. Many of the UK's sporting icons (Roger Bannister, Eric Liddell, Linford Cristie, etc) are sprinters. And obviously athletes of all ethnicities work exceptionally hard at what they do. But there are a lot of white sprinters devoting their all to it and not quite making the top tier.

Obviously, believing black people are good at sprinting is a ludicrous generalisation. Skin colour is far too broad a generalisation. But that does not mean that there are not specific genetic groups that are more likely to display particular physical attributes that make members of that group more likely to be physically adapted to a particular activity. If this group is black, then this can give the impression that black people are good at this when in fact it is much more specific. But looking underneath that to explore the role of genetics seems to me to be valid.

I understand that this is a very sensitive subject, and that much pseudo-science has gone on over the years to demonstrate (pretend) that oppressed minorities are 'not as good' in some way. Maybe this is so extreme and so sensitive that it is really impossible to talk about this issue at all without being perceived as racist and/or distressing people. But I do not see why it is not a valid question.

roundtable · 15/08/2012 10:02

That's uplifting to hear world and laptop :)

Crispy I can't vouch that I am interpreting what has been said accurately but 'The black race will only ever be understood by black people' I took to mean as although people of different races etc can have sympathy and/or empathy with other races etc, it is difficult to have understanding as your life is not affected in the same way.

For example, I will never understand what it will be like to be a millionaire, white English, male businessman. It is outside of my life experience.

I think the comment about Bolt is very accurate for some people actually. Many of my friends have parents who would have been very upset if their daughters came home with a black boyfriend, but I was ok apparently. Probably because I'm female, mixed race and speak with the local accent.

When I had my first dc with my dh, you would not believe the amount of people who were fixated on what colour he would be. Even my white dh said something which was not acceptable and I am in no doubt that he loves me exactly for who I am, but some comments and thoughts are so deeply ingrained and accepted by general society that people don't see that they are wrong. It's taken me a while to realise that myself and I have been guilty of believing some of the myths surrounding black people.

iismum what you have started to discuss in your post is not what the OP asked, she asked about black people being good athletes. Not people from specific regions.

As Back2two said, would starting a thread asking AIBU to wonder why black people have good rhythm be acceptable? It's the same premise.

musicismylife · 15/08/2012 10:42

"Crispy I can't vouch that I am interpreting what has been said accurately but 'The black race will only ever be understood by black people' I took to mean as although people of different races etc can have sympathy and/or empathy with other races etc, it is difficult to have understanding as your life is not affected in the same way"

That was exactly what I meant, but perhaps it came out the wrong way.

Smile