To wonder what Black athletes have....

[CrispyCod]

......that make them so superior in performance. It has to be genetic. I am in awe of them as they appear to glide effortlessly around the track. The Jamaican athletes are just wow! Their speed is just amazing.

Relevant? To what exactly, so it's ok to make racist or offensive comments because you think other people's comments are racist/offensive, or to try and prove some point

Because she merely pointed out the elephant in the room?
There is a racial dimension to the discussion, and she was quite civil discussing it too.

And so was the OP BTW. Civil, that is.

No plenty of people have voiced the opinion that the thread is racist or contains racist comments and have done so in a civil manner. I wouldn't say creighton is one of them

why do i need to be civil to people who are, i think, insulting, simplistic and racist? am i expected to be noble while others are just ignorant beyond belief? do you really think that this has been a reasoned discussion on the part of the majority of posters?

my posts should not have been deleted. mnhq allows provocative posts to remain, is that ignorance on their part? aren't they all super educated middle class women who should know better than to let such tripe go unanswered?

the fact that some people said the thread was racist didn't stop people from adding more ignorant comments. maybe my posts were a reaction to that. white people don't like being questioned or contradicted even if the subject is something they know nothing about and refuse to acknowledge that they are causing offence.

why doesn't mnhq tell us why they have allowed this thread to go on with posters leaving ridiculous posts? how were mine the most offensive posts?

white people don't like being questioned or contradicted even if the subject is something they know nothing about and refuse to acknowledge that they are causing offence

And that's not generalising or being racist either

You have no idea of the ethnicity of the majority of posters on here to make such a remark.

You sound so aggressive and bitter.

There have also been some very good posts on this thread. At the end of the day it's about discussion and debate. We may not like everything that's said but we get the freedom to respond to it.

aggressive and bitter - stereotype much?

if i were a white woman it would be forthright and righteously offended but as a black woman i obviously am aggressive. can't you do better than that?

there was no discussion, a few posts may have tried to be reasonable but honestly, do you think the level of willful ignorance shown here is acceptable? why should i not question you?

i can guess that the majority of people on this thread are white because we live in a white country! and in reality it would be a rare black person to come up with the posts that i have read here.

we have the freedom to respond so i responded.

But your responses are aggressive hence them being deleted by MNHQ. Their decision, not mine.

I couldn't give a shit if you are civil or not, however laptop thought you were civil and your post shouldn't have been deleted when quite clearly you were not civil

they did not call my posts aggressive that's a word you found all by yourself.

i am not bitter, but what if i were, after listening to this stream of offensive rubbish would i not be justified in being bitter? nothing changes from year to year. do you think that's okay? don't you think this conversation was had 10 years ago, or 20 years ago?

This thread is embarrassing. Crispy - you seem utterly determined not to see Creighton's viewpoint at all. Or understand why she(?) is upset.

For the record, I am a white Kiwi. I am trying to image a group of Pakeha (white NZers) having this sort of detatched discussion about Maori right in front of them, and I just cannot imagine it. It is cringeworthy (seriously - I am cringing for some of you and your comments and your blinkered sense of entitlement) and inappropriate to discuss people the way so many have done on this thread.

I say again - it is not even the discussion per se; it is the way it has happened on this thread.

NurseBernard

There is nothing wrong or new about the topic of this thread. The subject has been covered before by Michael Johnson in a documentary which unfortunately I missed.

If MNers decide to post comments deemed to be racist then it makes that person racist, not the subject of the thread. It is the individual which is at fault in that case.

There are many educated and well informed MNers who have contributed to this thread. Some of their views and theories may be incorrect and therefore have been questioned by others. Isn't that the whole point of this thread, to discuss and debate.

If a 'white' person contributes something offensive or racist they are not speaking on behalf of 'all whites' on this thread. By creighton referring to others as you whites she is herself being derogatory to many MNers.

She also says that only a rare black who would come up with some posts on this thread. She cannot speak for all Blacks as I do not speak for all whites. I, like most MNers speak for myself and my own personal views.

I understand she is upset with some of the posts written on here but it is the individual she needs to address in that case, not you whites. I would never ever refer to people as you Blacks, it's downright rude.

AboutLastNight - excellent points.
People just not getting it at all. Yes people from certain regions may have, for reasons discussed, certain physical advantages that allow them to sprint fast. This has nothing whatever to do with their skin colour! Because most of the people on earth who have similar skin colour are not from these particular regions. There's no correlation.
There are some ugly generalisations on this thread. I'm not massively comfortable with talk about "black people". They are hardly a homogenous mass ffs.

Wow - you pick up on the one (one!) thing Creighton said: 'you whites' and get all huffy, 'I would never say that, waaa, it's soooo rude!' and call her bitter and aggssive, but cannot empathise for a minute with all the bullshit that has been thrown at her. If not by you, then by others. Incredible.

If people can honestly tell me that they would happily have this conversation in a pub in front of black people, and would get all uppity nd defensive and call them 'aggressive' and 'bitter' if and when they objected to their faces, then I can quite categorically state that you are a buffoon.

CrispyCod if you had read all of my posts, you would have read that i had no problem with the op i had a problem with the posts that were left. did you see that at all or were you busy being aggressive and bitter at me posting the opposite of what you wanted to hear i.e. that everything was interesting and well thought out.

i don't think that many educated and well informed people posted here, i really don't.

i have generalised, you have used stereotypes, 'wow, look at those fast moving blacks, i'm so in awe of them' i am aggressive and bitter, like all blacks who talk back to white people.

you clearly are no better than me.

well the strangest thing ive read on here is a post by Crispycod in response to "blacks being bred like livestock"

That's really interesting, I had no idea. Well if their ancestors could see them today....

Exactly what do you think their ancestors would do or say if they could see them today ??? slap themselves on the back and say..."Well it was all worth it" ?

Im really hoping someone or Crispy will come along and tell me ive read this wrong.

Please point out the bullshit I have personally thrown at her. As for other people's bullshit, as I said before, they don't speak for me, I speak for myself.

Yes, I have had this conversation offline but not in front of Black people but with them. And FWIW they were genuinely intrigued in it as I have been and contributed just as much if not more to the subject.

Clearly I am a Buffoon

that's the first sensible thing you have said all thread

calling me aggressive and bitter is a good bit of stereotypical bullshit

I think mumsnet has been inconsistent with the deletions on this thread - if they were not prepared to let Creighton's stand then they will have to go through all the other posts some of which are offensive.

Or let her posts stand, they are only countering done of the nonsense folk are spouting.

Yes Gunzyou are completely wrong. It was a comment in response to DENISE34 post actually. Clearly you didn't pick up the sarcasm in response.

Creighton but some of your posts do come across as aggressive, particularly the one directed at MNHQ. Perhaps you didn't mean them to come across that way but that is always a problem when posting rather than a discussion face to face.
I understand you feel strongly about some of the responses on this thread. I am actually disappointed in some parts of it too as it was genuinely meant to engage people in a different way, not to encourage offensive remarks. But as I said earlier, those posters speak only for themselves and do not represent all MNers.

So Denise34 said:

Selective breeding during the days of slavery, unfortunately

Crispycod said:

That's really interesting, I had no idea. Well if their ancestors could see them today....

Im STILL missing the sarcasm!

Well clearly you are.