To wonder what Black athletes have....

[CrispyCod]

......that make them so superior in performance. It has to be genetic. I am in awe of them as they appear to glide effortlessly around the track. The Jamaican athletes are just wow! Their speed is just amazing.

You can talk about what you want as far as I'm concerned.

Did the Uk have tremendous success at the Olympics because of our natural sporting prowess, our belligerent warrior history, our history of hunting and that we're an island (sailing)?

Or was it because finally it was funded properly?
Enabling people who'd never have been able to compete at their best, to achieve their potential.

Well Chaz, I don't know but I suspect 'privilege and opportunity' is the most likely answer.

And what I've tried to say is that perhaps that is why people ask why non-whites dominate in other events: precisely because they historically have NOT had opportunities and privilege, and so how have they managed to overcome this?

Athletic superiority paired with hard graft?

Running is the least technical of all the athletics disciplines (c.f. triple jump or hammer throwing for example). Therefore, it is the one where you can make progress with relatively limited resources and less specialist coaching and equipment.

Very top level sprinters have great technique and techical coaching but you can probably get to a higher level in sprinting without very specialised equipment and coaching than you could in discus or high jump. Once you start to get to a high level in a sport it is easier to find the top level coaching you need.

WFIW I've seen many obscure documentaries over the years including why Jews and native Americans have virtually no tolerance to alcohol (same gene variation, bringing into play theories on human migration and land mass); why Innuits eat exorbitant amounts of fatty meat yet heart disease is almost unheard of; and so on

Yes Jumping I have seen similar documentaries. I also recall one about Japanese women having a lower incidence of some cancers due to the intake of soya.

This article on skin evolution is interesting. If our skin colour is determined by genes, a clearly visible attribute then why is it so difficult to imagine that there is a gene that determines a physical advantage in others, something not clearly visible to the eye?

Did anyone else do the BBC 'which sport does your body type represent?' quiz? You type in your height and weight and it tells you what sport you would be best suited to. Presumably if you cross-referenced that with average body types for different nationalities/regions/races then you can see which countries have the most people who fit that type, so presumably Afro-Carribbean body types are MOST LIKELY to fit the sprinter shape, Kenyans are among the MOST likely to fit the distance running body type etc

Add in specific physical traits like fast-twitch muscle fibres and lung capacity, specific environmental factors like altitude in the Nandi valley, specific social factors like a culture of long-distance running, an emphasis on sprint training in schools - or equally access to sports such as 'elite' rowing and equestrianism in Britain, Germany and other wealthy nations - and you get a combination which can statistically add up to make you MOST LIKELY to dominate the medal tables.

What is interesting is to see how government policy/social factors can 'overcome' physical probabilities - for example Eastern Germany's dominance during the '80s, or China's dominance nowadays - not just in sports like swimming, but they won a gold medal in the Laser Radial sailing class this year, a boat which for many European women (statisically more likely to be taller and heavier) involves a lot of weight training to be at optimum body shape.

This was discussed in depth during the Olympics by the tv presenters and something that Michael Johnson said made perfect sense to me, he says you look at an island like Jamaica, their main sport is sprinting, the kids grow up wanting to be usain bolt and just participating in sprinting, therefore they turn out a lot of good runners. In England for example, the main sport is football, kids grow up wanting to be David beckham or Wayne Rooney, therefor we produce footballers. Maybe if athletics or sprinting was our first sport we would producing world class sprinters.

I cannot stand it when people who have genuine and heartfelt objections to a discussion are described as 'professionally offended'. It happens a lot on threads about race and it is belittling and insulting. I do not think for one minute creighton and changz are being 'professionally offended', they have raised very valid and well-reasoned objections to this discussion.

I'm also sick of people saying they can't discuss some things for fear of being called racist. Say what you like, and be ready to defend your position as in any other topic. That's just a more oblique way of saying 'Oh, you're playing the race card.' It implies that when people of a minority ethnicity express anger or disapproval at something, they're trying to shut down debate, instead of defending themselves against what they genuinely perceive as being unpleasant and discriminatory.

People may well say they are just curious, but in the course of discussing this they may still have revealed some woeful ignorance or pretty unfortunate attitudes or assumptions. If you do that, expect other posters to take you to task for it. If you think they've done so unfairly, tell them so in a reasoned way, instead of wibbling on about the 'professionally offended' brigade.

they discussed the issue on BBC Olympics on TV. Arrived at not speicific answers. Though some said 94 0f 95 top sprinters were black. hmmmmm

I do not think for one minute creighton and changz are being 'professionally offended', they have raised very valid and well-reasoned objections to this discussion.

Why object to this discussion, simply post your views.

Oh, and Creighton's first post was actually deleted for being racist....'you whites' she referred to other posters. That is a really valid and well reasoned contribution to the discussion.

Pot calling the kettle black if you ask me.

'Pot calling the kettle black if you ask me.'

Was that deliberate?

I'm not offended or objecting to anything, I thought it was a debate?

Didn't see it, as it was deleted, so i didn't address it in my post. But 'you whites' is not something I would ever say.

Interesting discussion. I remember being taught at school (about a million years ago) that it was because black people from certain areas were characterised as having long, lean bodies with longer limbs in proportion to that of someone from China for example - genetically having the ideal body shape and build for running (sprint or long distance depending on the area or origin).

I think a fair amount is what the 'national sport' is (role models, family/friends/society approval, local facilities, etc). Look at the Williams sisters - fantastic athletes, but their dad guided them towards tennis. If he had decided to focus on golf, athletics or even tiddly winks, I am sure they would have done fantastically well then too. Ok, so they probably wouldn't make good ballerinas, but they have drive, focus, strength and the mind-set to achieve.

If I were selectively 'breeding' (horrible expression) humans, then I would want people big and strong (and not very bright) and not very good sprinters (in case they escaped). I can't believe I actually sat and worked that one out.

Pot calling the kettle black if you ask me.'

Was that deliberate?

I knew someone would have to try and pick that one apart. It is a common phrase, used everyday. Pots and Kettles used to be made of black iron hence the phrase.

I though it was from when they used to put pots and kettles onto open fires to cook, so they got black bottoms from the fire and soot.

i objected to this 'discussion' when it got to the 'i've had sex with a black man so i know all about black issues' 'my grandad saw a black man across the street one time and he thinks....'and 'their big nostrils make them breathe in more than everyone else'. did you think that i should just accept this nonsense? people are passing off their ignorance as science. why don't any white people object to these views? why has mnhq not deleted these posts? i have assumed that the posters on this thread are mainly white as a black person who buys into this rubbish ought to be ashamed of themselves.

as for 'the pot calling the kettle black' i was responding to posters on this thread.

after permitting so many racists comments to stand, why did mnhq delete my reasoned, hard hitting posts? is it because certain types of people aren't permitted to question the majority view? are white people so hysterical and sensitive that they cannot accept criticism from others? i think they should reinstate my posts.

Well, pot calling the kettle black annoys a lot of people because inherent in the expression is the idea that being black is bad. Pot calling the kettle grimy arse, on the other hand, gets the idea across without giving credence to that very iffy idea.

creighton white people were objecting to some of the views being expressed. The difficulty is when someone says "my black husband says..." should I as white person pile in and say that her husband seems to have bought into some utter nonsense (which I think he had unless his comment was tongue in cheek) only to be told that its not my place to contradict him.

You lot are noticing something and then extrapolating from that domething completely different. Correlation is not causation.

In terms of genes - you are confusing skin colour with populations in a certain area. You are basically saying that because someone has a darker skin colour than yours, they must have special attributes which add up to some genetic predisposition to physical activity.

You are wrong. The op is ill-judged. These people are winning medals perhaps because they are predisposed to being goud at physical activity but that is nothing to do with skin colour these attributes will be found within white populations too.

And people with darker skin colour exist across continents - and genetically speaking the white contributors on this thread may share more genes with Usain Bolt than Sebastian Coe.

Really you are adding 4+4 and making 5 and you are belittling the achievements of the black competitors while you do it.

I think this thread is distasteful.

I think this thread is distasteful.

Thanks for the input. Off you go then.

Is that all you have to say?

Can you counter what I have just written? That ' black people' as a genetic homogenous group, does not exist?

Creighton's post was relevant and should not have been deleted.
She raised the debate didn't she?