Mother takes DD to church and teaches her religion against my wishes

[Andifnotnow]

My mother looks after DD a day / couple of afternoons a week. They seem to have a happy relationship and most of the time I'm happy with that arrangement. However, sometimes during that time my mother is wont to take her to church and teaches her about God.

I am completely non religious and find it disturbing when my 4 year old starts repeating things she has been told about God, death, heaven and hell. I appreciate that people have their beliefs and I am not against that in others. However it just deeply upsets me to have my DD taught about those things an if it weren't for my mother the word and concept of "god" would not be in her vocabulary or head. She is attending a non denominational school and I would like her to make up her own mind when she is old enough to understand, and not be indoctrinated by stealth when she is so little.

Both me and DH have repeatedly asked my mother not to do that, and she pretends to go along with our wishes, until the next time.... and next. To the extent that I feel I just cannot trust her with it at all.

I am now thinking of calling her church and telling them that my DD is being brought there without my consent, am I being unreasonable? Have I got any legal right to stop that?

Otherwise I don't know what else to do, cut off contact between my mother and DD?

I'm amazed at the number of people missing the distinction between "learning about" something and being told that one particular version of that thing is true. Every child has to learn about politics at some point - it doesn't mean you should be dragging four year olds off to Conservative Party meetings.

using a slide rule is a skill which may one day be handy and is part of an academic study (maths I assume) and which I am pretty sure is mostly phased out with the increased use of calculators/computers. This is how it should be.

Teaching that there is a God, that Jesus died for our sins and so on is completely different. It's not true, it serves no purpose and certainly for young children there is no point other than to get them while they are young.

Do 3/4/5 year olds learn how to use slide-rules?

and what hackmum said.

I don't agree that being an atheist equates to "doing nothing". I think its actually more difficult to try and understand and make sense of the world and its complexity without a framework that religion offers, or it's convenient, comforting and reassuring guidelines and explanations. It requires more thought and analysis, because every person you meet and viewpoint you encounter you have to make up your own mind about, rather than stick to a preordained script. It's your decision, every time, and your responsibility. You don;t get absolved for making a mistake, or have another life to look froward to if you mess up here, or paradise to egg you on to be "good".

The distinction stands though, I just don;t want DD to be involved in it, to participate in it or to be told about its content and constructs.

I think perhaps more supervised bonding sessions are in order.

I work and DD attends preschool, so this isn't really about free childcare. They were supposed to be hanging out together, doing fun stuff, going to I don;t know craft lessons or music classes, any number of activities that are totally ok with us!

As her mother surely it is up to me to decide how she is educated? If you think my mum should have a say... sure she had it, with me. And now it's my turn to have my say.... AIBU?

I would say YANBU - your mother is going against your and your husband's express wishes. It would be the similar to say, you said please don't feed DD chocolates, and she deliberately fed her chocolates. The key thing is that she, for whatever reason, feels that she overrides your views as a parent, and that's not right.

Sorry-I missed that she was a recent convert-I assumed OP had been brought up the same way. I think that it will be difficult to control your mother-if not impossible.

well put it this way, If i insited my dd only eats organic goats cheese, because I doint like chedder and my mum kept giving her cheeder sandwiches It would be sad and silly to cut her off. However if she was taking her to sit in on her weekely National front meets that would not be sad and silly.

This then maybe is somewhere in between that would be better served with a bit of negotiation and education and by that I mean If it where me I would not set such ridiculous sanctions and demands on my mother when she was spending time with my dd, instead I would respect that her religion is part of what makes her who she is and I would take responsibilty to ensure my dd had an even balance.

AbsofAwesomeness that is so funny! I did tell her not to feed DD chocolates, and guess what, from never having had chocolate before and liking to eat fruit, under mum's influence she became a chocoholic who wouldn't look twice at an apple!

And TheEnthusiasticTroll thanks for your patent understanding and tolerance dripping form every post you made on this thread!!!!

So then, if there is this ongoing tendency of your mother to undermine your wishes (beyond the usual grandparent-grandchild indulgence of course), then something needs to be done.

(hopefully a more experienced and wiser MNer will come along and help out)

I am not an atheist, I am without religion so therefore my children will know nothing about religion from me and I would like it if they didn't get forced into learning about it from school/society and so on.
that's what I meant about nothing.

you are welcome. Im sure your mother also is also appreciative of your own ptenent understanding and tollerence, in just the same viene.

Pot, kettle!!!

Has your mother always been difficult? Any chance of just sitting down for a chat and her listening and doing as you ask?

(Just as an aside when you said non denominational school-I trust you realise that this is Christian but just not a particular branch? There are no secular state schools in England)

I think taking her to "church" is a bit out of order we are christians and we say grace before meals so if OP and her Dd were here we would still say grace OP would not need to say it but I would be more than annoyed if she said blahg blah blah while we did, I would not take her Dd tp church while she was here on playdate or similar, if however OP asked us in an emergency to look after DD on sunday morning I would say of course I can but we always go to church at 11 so if you want me to look after DD she would need to come with us,

nothing sneaky or aggainst Op wishes however if OP expected us not to go to church in those circumstances i would feel she was being unreasonable.

if my own DD went to OP's house I would not expect OP to say grace with her as they do not do that there neither if OP looked after DD on sunday would I expect her to take her to church

So OP's mother shoulfd not take her to church however if OP wants her looked after by her mother on Wednesday PM and wednesday PM is a Church meeting time then she needs to let DD go or find alternative child care she can't reasonable expect mother to miss the same service every week

I think this may hinge on whether this afternoon service is the shinto equivalent of christian sunday communion or islam friday prayers, if it is then maybe OP is being a tad unreasonable to expect mother to give it up every week, if it is just an extra fellowship get together type meeting then I think Op's mother should not go with her grandaughter

In general i think grandpaents can have different rules in their own home, it is in order for grandparents to ban feet on sofas, use of certain words even if parents are happy enough with that

sorry that was long

You had better keep them in a plastic bubble, then Duelingfanjo
Your children will learn many things in their lives, not all of it can or should be controlled by you.

Bring them up to question everyone and everything-including you.

Why would anyone not want their child educated about religions?

Sirzy, because they think it's a load of old nonsense that has been responsible for a whole lot of hatred and killing perhaps? Yes I know there is more to it than that, but I saw too much horror in the name of religion during my upbringing in Northern Ireland to want to have anything to do with the whole ball of wax. My child gets a whole heap of religious education in school, personally I can think of about a million other subjects which would be a better use of his time, but I don't have any choice unfortunately.

But you need to be educated about religion to argue against it don't you?

But it's such a big part of the world and of world history how can it be avoided?

Exactly lee. I wouldn't expect everyone to agree with the teachings of religions, I am Christian and there are parts of christianty I don't like let alone other religions but that doesn't mean it isn't important that people are aware of religions and the fact that different people have different beliefs and that someone having different beliefs than you isn't a bad thing and doesn't mean someone is right or wrong.

What will you do when your child's friend is talking about going to mosque or being confirmed or having a bar mitzvah? At Christmas and Easter will you keep them away from school so they don't hear talk of Jesus?

Of course I won't keep my child away from school, you are just being silly now. I do wish I had the choice to send my child to a school where religion was taught as a cultural choice rather than fact though. I have no issue with a bit of religious education regarding this is what Catholics, Hindus, whatever believes in. I do object to my son being taught a load of fairy stories as fact, when there is not a shred of evidence.

And why bother learning about it to argue against it? I mean it's not like anyone ever changes their minds about religion in an argument. My mum was brought up JW, she always says that she never knew any converts by argument.

There are lots of reasons to learn about religion in order to argue against it.

The history of Scientology for example is both fascinating and damning,

The fact that some women are oppressed by men in the name of 'religion' and have nowhere near equal rights etc

The fact that people hide behind religion (not all but some) in order to actively discriminate against Gay people

To argue and campaign against these things you need to learn about them surely.

Kayano you do not need to know the details of religious stories to know that it can be oppressive and discriminatory, all you have to do is look around you. These things can also be taught in history, or by reading the paper. My son doesn't need to be taught about the finer details of communion or Ganesh or whatever to learn this.

As I keep saying, i am fine with learning about these things as cultural beliefs, but not as facts, which is how they are taught in schools at present.