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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

I would like my 3 year old grand-daughter to stay with me for one night, but my daughter in law says NO, AIBU?

892 replies

redyam · 26/07/2012 21:47

I bit of background, this is not me, but I will write as though it is, for a friend.

I sea my grand-daughter every few weeks, we live about 100 miles away from each other. We either go down to my sons house or they come up to stay for the weekend.

We all get on really well, my grand-daughter is delightful, and behaves as good as gold whenever we spend time with her or go out for trips.

I would like to take my 3 year old grand-daughter on an overnight outing nearby. We will take her out for the evening (not late) without the parents, spend the night with her, then bring her back to her parents the next day.

I think it will do her the world of good, give me some quality time with her, and give her parents a night off to do what they want. I'm sure my GD would love it.

However my daughter-in-law says NO! No reason given, to flat out refusal. I'm a little hurt really, as though I can't be trusted with my grand-daughter.

Am I being unreasonable to want to do this, or to feel hurt?

OP posts:
Inneedofbrandy · 29/07/2012 12:14

I am surrounded my to many "elders" to Shullbit that are quite capable.

SilkySmith · 29/07/2012 12:18

"It is about common sense, not age related health."

it is about both

disabilities don't prevent someone from being a good child carer but they must ACKNOWLEDGE them and work around them
LOTS of people on here are saying that their children's GPS do not recognise their own limitiations

for example, my mother thinks she isn't old and hasn't slowed down at all yet, yet if you set a loud alarm for her right beside her bed she just doesn't hear it/wake up! you can't have an overnight babysitter who won't hear a smoke alarm!

she has plenty of common sense, and does babysit when AWAKE, but I can't leave her to do a sleep over because she can't do the tasks that you need an overnight babysitter to do.... even though she THINKS she can and if you met her during the day you'ld think she was perfectly capable and not "old"

Shullbit · 29/07/2012 12:18

I have never known anyone in their 50's be so bad healthwise that it makes them not capable of looking after children. And if they are, then they are incapable of looking after themselves and need a carer. Apart from that, as long as they have common sense, there shouldn't be an issue as I have found with more than a few people, and friends have with their family etc.

Shullbit · 29/07/2012 12:21

Silky, then in that case, I hope she doesn't live alone as that puts her life at risk. And if she doesn't live on her own and there is another adult there who can wake up, then what is the problem?

SilkySmith · 29/07/2012 12:26

she does live alone and of course I worry about it but she has "capacity" to choose her own living arrangement, she isn't demented or anything she just like pretty much everyone I know of her age, doesn't want to accept that she is slowing down a bit! She doesn't need a carer, she can wash, cook, shop, drive.

Shullbut you are again failing to see that there is a soubtle middle ground between being 100% capable and independant and able to care for a child 24 hours a day, and being unable to self care. And a lot of GPS fall into this bracket but as its soubtle and slow they often can't or down want to see it themselves

There's nothing I can do about it, its her choice to deny it. But I can choose to not have her as an overnight babysitter.

marriedinwhite · 29/07/2012 12:28

I'm 52, two teenage children, full time job, fit and well. Yes I don't have the same physical energy I did ten or twenty years ago but I have a heck of a lot more experience than I did then. I am certainly more than capable of looking after a small child overnight but I would only want to do it if her mother was happy about it and the child wanted to come. If I was up for half the night I would not have the energy for a day of crabbing at the beach and soft play and I don't think that would be the best overall results.

But, dear mn mummies, 52+ plus is not past it and you have just made me feel ancients.

olgaga · 29/07/2012 12:30

I would just also say that I thought redyam's second post was thoughtful and sensible - from the point of view that she has accepted her DIL's decision and intends to "let things lie".

That is by far the best policy. The bottom line in this situation is that there's no point pushing it to the point where relationships are damaged by a refusal to take "no" for an answer.

Far better to just look on whatever time you spend with your GC as a blessing, and make the most of it. Also remember their memories of you will be just as fond whether you tucked them up in bed or not!

usualsuspect · 29/07/2012 12:31

Nice to know I've been written off as an incapable old fool at 53.

I work full time and have a teenage DS.

The ageism on MN pisses me off more than anything else.

SilkySmith · 29/07/2012 12:34

well them married in white you will be unlikely to have an OP like this about you

good for you and lucky for your GCs if you have any (and your children and ILs)

those of us who are saying we don't do this would LOVE if our children had GPS who could take DCs, its not that we can't stand the thought of ANYONE caring for them, its that we have to judge if they can or not, and there are lots of GPs out there who overestimate their capabilities and the child's parent's have to make judgements about where to draw the line so everyone is safe and happy

FWIW I have friends in their 20s who I wouldn't deem capable of minding DS either. But am not over protective and possessive of him, he has some great babysitters but it is my (and DHs job) to choose who can care for him and entertain him safely

usualsuspect · 29/07/2012 12:35

I'm also quite capable of crossing a bloody road.

This thread has bloody annoyed me.

Kayano · 29/07/2012 12:36

Ah but usual, can you be trusted to cross the road without being hit with a car?

Best if you get DS to show you all the safe places to cross.

There's a love.

I'm 27 and Am staggered by some views on here!!!! My 62 year old dm and 67yo father are fitter and probably more capable than I am!

Kayano · 29/07/2012 12:36

X posts!!

SilkySmith · 29/07/2012 12:37

"Nice to know I've been written off as an incapable old fool at 53."

it doesn't happen overnight for most, most people aren't capable of EVERYTHIGN up until the point when they are capable of nothing

nobody WANTS to see their DM or DMIL getting less capable, but some of us have to and have to judge how much they can realistically do- and that doesn't always match up to what they think/say they can do. D'ya think its fun for us to realise that our mothers are slowing down? Its not ageism it's risk assessment, I do it for EVERYONE who might care for DS regardless of age

TheBigJessie · 29/07/2012 12:38

It all depends. My MIL is older than usual and entirely capable of babysitting any age of small child. My mother is the same age as usual and was kicked out of sheltered accommodation for setting the place on fire.

SilkySmith · 29/07/2012 12:38

"I'm 27 and Am staggered by some views on here!!!! My 62 year old dm and 67yo father are fitter and probably more capable than I am!"

Lucky you! mine aren't, you are just LUCKY not a less judegmental person then me!

usualsuspect · 29/07/2012 12:40

It's a wonder I can manage to get through the day really without some youngster escorting me around.

Inneedofbrandy · 29/07/2012 12:42
Spiritedwolf · 29/07/2012 12:42

It seems to come down to this:

If the GP are suitable carers for the child overnight (as determined by the parents, not the GP) by what age can a GP expect to have the GC on an overnight stay?

Some people seem to feel it ought to have happened by 3 years, others feel that at 3 years a child is still quite young and that it isn't unreasonable for parents to delay such sleepovers until the child is older. This may be because of practical or emotional readiness of the child for overnight stays, or it might be because the parent isn't ready, or simply sees it as unnecessary.

This seems to be connected to the experience of the poster growing up. Some stayed at grandparents from a young age, others from an older age and some not at all. People with all of these experiences still managed to develop close relationships with their grandparents.

There seems to be a double standard in the arguments in favour of the GP POV, where by a parent's desire to keep their child close to them at night is seen as selfish and precious whilst a grandparent's desire to have a grandchild overnight is seen as natural and to be encouraged. You can't have it both ways, either where the child spends overnight is emotionally important to those caring for the child and the child itself, or it isn't (in which case, why make a fuss about having the child overnight at all).

People are different and they parent differently. Not necessarily better or worse. My DN (my parent's first GC) has been staying over occasionally at theirs since he was 7/8months old and stopped BF. Whilst I respect my Dsis's decision, and see that it works for them, I think this would be too young for me to leave my DC overnight. Partly because I want to BF for a longer time if things work out, partly because I can't (yet) imagine wanting a break from the DC I spent 6 years TTC and partly because I have a different relationship with our parents. For example, before either of us had children, my Dsis would go around to DPs on Christmas day, DH and I have christmas day to ourselves and see boxing day or the day after for visiting relatives. I know its a small difference, but I guess its indictative of DH and I valuing our space as a little family, whereas my Dsis spends much more time with our DPs (she lives a bit closer as well). My Dsis and DBil also have lots of out of the home interests which mean that babysitting is very useful to them, whereas, my DH and I are more homebirds, and the kind of evenings out we do occasionally have, are ones suitable for a babe in arms.

My DM recognises this difference between me and my Dsis. She has let me know that she is always willing to lend a hand and is available both for short babysitting duties and overnight, and that she will respect our parenting style. (For example, when my Dnephew stays with them, she is tempted to have him stay up late so she can spend more time with him, but puts him to bed at his normal routined time as his parents wish). She's also made it clear that she's had her time as a mum (with 5 of us!) and doesn't want to impose either. I've let her know that I don't think I'll feel ready for overnight stays as early as my sister, but I appreciate her offer.

I do have some concerns about the suitablity of my DF to babysit, because he could be verbally abusive to me growing up. I realise he's unlikely to be this way with a small child, but its something I'd have to be very confident about before agreeing to overnight stays with him as the main carer.

My DMil is lovely, but lives much further away, and I don't really know about her parenting/grandparenting style as this will be her first GC. I'd imagine solo visits to her will be a long way off, but we'll try to keep her as involved as possible when we visit as a family.

Obviously there is another debate going on about the parent's judgement of how suitable the GP are to look after their child unsupervised. Its nice to know that some people have such great relationships with their family that they can't imagine not trusting them. Not everyone does. There's a difference between GPs spoiling kids by letting them stay up an hour or two later, or giving them some extra sweeties occasionally, and GPs having incompatible views about discipline, smoking, safety, allergies, criticism etc and who will ignore the parents wishes. Its an issue of trust.

In the recent past on Mumsnet we've had DD/DDils posting about being unhappy with GPs who don't take their children's anaphalactic allergies seriously, horders whose homes are unsafe but who want the GC there unsupervised, MIL who won't even speak to the mother of their GC on the day they come home from hospital and GP who see fit to take the child to a hairdresser without consulting the parents to have its babycurls cut off - and that's just the threads I've read recently and I certainly don't read all the threads. Some GP can't be trusted by the parents.

Others can, but the parents/children just aren't ready for extended visits.

YANBU to want your GC to stay. YABU not to respect that for whatever reason your Dil isn't ready for that yet. Concentrate on being someone she can trust by respecting her boundaries.

Kayano · 29/07/2012 12:46

I am talking about the view that 'at age 50 to 60 GP are slowing down but don't realise etc...' (that someone said)

And?
They probably 1) do realise better than anyone what they can't do now than they used to - getting old does not mean you lose all ability to recognise your shortcomings
2) resent the fact they are deemed incapable of looking after GC because try may have slightly less energy. - my GM had less energy and we still went to the park where I played and we snuggled and watched TV and we had little tea parties.

usualsuspect · 29/07/2012 12:50

I may not be able to run marathons at 53 but I'm sure as hell capable of looking after a 3 year old overnight.

Jeez, I've got the right hump about that post.

thunksheadontable · 29/07/2012 12:52

Haven't read all the thread but a good bit of the beginning and end..

My MIL is in her 60's and I would agree with the posts about limitations. She has very severe arthritis and had major shoulder surgery earlier in the year and has been off work ever since. Yet weeks after her operation she was offering to take the gcs and her dd and my bil's kids did stay with her - five children under five! Dh and I were around for a bit of that time and it was really obvious she was struggling to cope with the children and manage to get to the loo/change nappies/make dinner etc. My FIL is a farmer and wasn't able to offer any help as it was a very busy time and it was chaos.

MIL says things like it is no bother to mind all five because she just locks them all into a room so they can't escape - a room that's full of fine china and that has no toys etc. I have watched the kids in there for her while she has e.g. gone to make dinner and I'm telling you, it is hard work.

I think she very much wants to be able to take all the kids and she is desperate to help out, be involved, give her daughters and daughters-in-law "a break" but I think that taking her up on her offer without recognising that she is actually limited and that it's not ideal is just selfish and turning-a-blind-eye-because-it-suits-yourself. My judgy pants were hoiked to my ears when she was minding the whole brood within weeks of the surgery.

My own mother is not even 60 but she is morbidly obese to the extent that she can't actually have a baby on her lap as there's no space and she is not massively mobile and so it's my stepdad who does all the running around after the kids, but he never had any of his own and I have seen him do quite stupidly dangerous things:

  • left ds (2) alone in the garden with a paddling pool
  • repeated this despite a discussion about it and said "but it was only for a few minutes"
  • had a "stand off" with ds who was running away from him outside his house on a busy road in front of shops that cars were pulling in and out of
  • let ds get out of the carseat in the middle of a car journey because the straps were "hurting his arms".

I'm all for kids staying with grandparents but I do think sometimes in individual cases they do have limitations that are worth considering that don't amount to ageism/preciousness etc on the part of the child's parents.

usualsuspect · 29/07/2012 12:52

Not your post Kayano BTW.

JenaiMarrHePlaysGuitar · 29/07/2012 12:52

Slowing down at 50-60? Did someone actually say that? Fuck me.

(Did a qick ctrl-f, and indeed they did).

youarewinning · 29/07/2012 12:53

My DS has gone with my mum to stay at a campsite my family have been going to for 50 years for 2-4 days at a time (got longer as he's got older) since he was 3. Mum loves having him, I miss him, but know he has a great time.

This is the campsite where someone was abducted from a neighbouring site about 20 odd years ago and the cliff collapsed last week.

Point is I trust my mum to keep him safe because she has raised 3 children and loves my DS.

I wonder what is stopping your DIL. Also agree with speaking to your DS. He is her dad after all.

SilkySmith · 29/07/2012 12:56

"I am talking about the view that 'at age 50 to 60 GP are slowing down but don't realise etc...' (that someone said)"

and many are, people age differently and it DOES start at 50 or 60 for many, its not like you are as capable as anyone until.. what... you suddenly turn 90 and bed bound? up until then you have no age related limitations at all? well that happens sometimes but other times it's more soubtle and creaping!

Many people whose GPs are in their 60s DO seriously have to consider age retated limitations, some don't - lucky them, but lots of us do, it would be irresponsible not to!

And a lot of us have the issue that these GPs would present themselves as the GM in the OP, yet we are not saying no because we can't bear to be parted, we are saying no because we have to not because we want to.

That's not to say we don't think our DCs GPs are incapable of ANYTHING, we just have to judge what they can do but we still facilitate their reationships.

I did have to spell out my reasons to my DM recently as she was looking to buy a larger house so her GCs could stay over. I had to tell her that she is un-rousable when she sleeps but she had absolutely no idea (and I'm not sure she is convinced!). She thought she was up to the job! I did say that we'ld love for them to spend time round there during the day, we're not saying she can't look after them, we are saying that it won't be over night until they are old enough to get up and out (and hopefully get HER up and out) in an emergency as it won't happen the other way round

Its not UR to assess limitations before packing your child off, there would also be limitations to them staying with someone very young, say an 18 yr old relative, you would have to weigh up whether age related issues might affect their capabilities too! (some would be great, others would be too young at the same age, just like some 60yr old GPs would be great and others are too old at 60)