Schools - WWYD

[baconcrisps]

DH and I are atheist and have always believed that it would be hypocritical of us to attend church purely with a view to DD (age 3) attending a particular school. We do not, however, have any issues with DD attending a church school and learning about the Christian faith, singing hymns, taking part in asssemblies etc.

DD is 3 and will be starting at the nursery of our closest school in Sept. It is a C of E school that Ofsted judge as outstanding and the school is heavily oversubscribed. We did not expect her to get a nursery place here, and if I wasn't pregnant she would have stayed at the private preschool she currently goes to. However having got the place at the school nursery this will help massively financially and being local is also much more convenient.

We have to apply for school places in January and currently fall within the 15th out of 18 criteria for places. Usually all places are gone by the 13th or 14th criteria so it is incredibly unlikely that DD will be offered a school place there on the basis of living 2 minutes walk away. The next nearest school seems fine, we have always assumed she would go there and been happy with that. It is a much more diverse intake, higher free meals, higher SEN, higher English not first language, higher numbers starting and leaving within the school year. I didn't think I had a problem with that. However now it is getting closer, maybe I do. I also think I am disrupting DD enough by removing her from her preschool where her friends are so she can go to the CofE nursery and then will be moving her again, while her friends stay there, to go to another school.

Technically it is too late for us to do a U-turn on our lack of beliefs and start going to church - you are meant to attend for 18 months before applying to get in on one of the church criteria. However DD's (new) CM said she knows of at least one child whose parents only attended for a few months and the vicar (?) signed off on the form. Now I am struggling - should I put aside my view that education should not be dependent on a parent's religion (or willingness to turn up at a place of religion) or should I do whatever is within my power to get my DD a place at a good school?

Don't worry about the genuine applicants. God will help them

Send her to the local school. It's morally the right thing to do. She will be absolutey fine there. I don't agree with faith schools existing at all but that school will be taking the local children from that area and it is unfair for you to take their place.

ilove well I am less bothered about another child than my dd . I also don't agree that an out of borough child whose parents may also be "playing the system" and will be driven in daily does "genuinely" deserve the place more than my dd who lives on the doorstep.

leecloakley the other school doesn't have a nursery.

krumbum the local one is the faith one, on my road and about 2 min walk. The other is just under half a mile away but is closest non religious one

Do it!

I consider it a moral duty to undermine and defy a grotesquely unjust system which permits state funded schools to discriminate against children on religious grounds.

worry

Haha malinois - destroy from within! I like it

Malinois yes that how to get back at them. Join the scrum to get it.

Well, because you're on the doorstep you've obviously decided your daughter deserves a place, probably regardless of anyone else's circumstances, and it seems you're going to go ahead anyway.

This is mental then. They should be going by catchment. If its close try and send her there. MUCH better than carrying on with private...

Have you actually visited the other school?

The primary DS has just left has a demography that shows v high levels of all the factors that are supposed to demonstrate disadvantage and therefore, apprantly, a difficult intake. It is in S London.

It has been a completely happy school for DS, the discipline is excellent, whilst the place feels like a warm, happy, caring family. And the excellent staff specialise on getting top academic results irrespective of a child's background. It has a much higher VA score than some of the high achieving faith schools. And having all his friends living locally has been brilliant.

Don't write off the other school without visiting and talking to other parents.

Which country has a better educational system that is fair and stress free? The situation in the UK is a nightmare -moving house, postcode lottery, private school fees, waiting lists, religion. Anyone out there changed religion for schooling reasons?

If the other school does not have a nursery then you may well find a few children from the CofE nursery who will transfer to the other school, your dd won't be the only one.

I personally am an atheist. I would not send my children to a religious school. I'd sooner move house to the catchment of a good non-religious school.

I think you need to NOT attend church and fill in the application form honestly. Then if you do get a place you won't need to feel guilty for having been hypocritical.

Could you see attending church with DD from now on as a way of supporting the school/nursery she'll be attending? If so its more about community and less about 'playing the system' - or religion.

If it helps her get a place at the outstanding school then fantastic, if it doesn't then you've still been part of the community of her pre-school. You might want to keep attending though in case a place came up later in the year if she didn't get in in the 1st round?

I'd check what the CM said though - is it possible the parents who had only been attending for a few months had just moved into the area and had a letter from their previous vicar?

It's better than driving pseudo-christians across town, better that they walk the few yards IMO.

iredness - most people have a problem with kids with SEN. They may not wish to admit it, but they do. Kids that take up most of the teachers time, that disrupt planned acitivities, that just generally are hard work... Most parents don't like their kids being paired with 'that' child

And, believe me, I know. I have that child. A child I adore more than life itself. But frequently reduces me to tears. A child I have decided to send his sister to a different school to, because I don't want her constantly having to deal with his behaviour. A child I will almost certainly HE because of his inability to behave in group situations.

Until you have a child like that, you have no idea how it feels. But, I refuse to blame other parents for not wanting their children to behave like mine does. It's not a nice place to be.

My last comment was in reply to sooty, didn't make sense otherwise!

Have you been to see the other school? We are similar in that our closest school is v oversubscribed - the type of school parents lie through their teeth/rent secomd houses to get into. Unsurprisingly we got allocated our 2nd choice which sounds similar to the school you described. However it is fantastic- the staff are wonderful and very committed, the facilities are excellent and I think it's great for DD to mix with kids from diverse cultural backgrounds.

Brilliant, Malinois.
OP, have faith

A lot of people do what you are proposing and justify it on the grounds that you do the best thing for your child.

As an Atheist parent, I think that the first responsibility I have to my children is to provide them with a moral grounding in how to live your your life. It starts with leading by example, and so I decided that I was not prepared to fake a religion to get DS into school.

In the event the school in question announced it was increasing its intake just before the places were announced anyway. We got in.

Maybe someone is looking after us after all.

Tiredness - sorry. Obviously I did assume.

DS has a massively high IQ (around 200,and he is 4YO) but is just a nightmare to deal with. I wouldn't blame any other parent for not wanting their child paired with DS.

DS takes things in around 20 times faster than a NT child, so just gets bored beyond belief. He also has a fascination with locks, which is something of a security issue.

I am sorry that I assumed your situation wrongly. I just don't see what's wrong with parents trying to do the best for their kids.

I am catholic. I will always be catholic. I still believe in Darwin.

I wouldn't do it. Take your chances - you live close enough to be in with a chance on that criteria alone.

Feigning religion to get into a school is low end.

The system is completely stupid but that doesn't make it acceptable.