To think that society should support women to have children early in adult life

[ReallyTired]

Babies born to older mothers have a higher risk of special needs, it is harder to concieve after 35 and there are more likely to be complications with giving birth and pregnancy. It is far easier to give get pregnant and birth at 25 than 40.

Unfortunately women are under huge pressure to put off childbearing until their late thirties because its very hard to build a career after children. I feel that there should be more help for mothers returning to the workplace after children and stronger legistation to combat age discrimination. Ie apprenticeships should be open to mothers returning/ starting out in the work place as well as under 25s. I would like more help to allow mothers to have career breaks and return to the work place.

Surely its easier to change the attitudes of employers than basic biology. (Ie. its far easier to have a challenging career starting in your 40s than to start a family.

Is OP going to return or does she have enough quotes to write now?

I am glad its not just me that thinks that (well I knew it wasnt just me but its good to see it writing IYSWIM)

From the way people bang on about SN in older women you would think it was a given that any child of a women above 35 would be disabled have Downs

I am not going to minimise the challenges associated with raising a child with SN or wax lyrical about how loving children with DS are..those sorts of comments can be just as annoying.

But I want to see the stats on children born with SN to older mothers. The types of SN and the reasons for them.
If we go by the amount of times it is mentioned as a reason for mothers not to delay childbirth I would expect the percentages to be in the high 80s at least

I work with children with disabilities. I would say the majority have mothers who gave birth well before 35.

Wasabipeanut, your friend just did it differently to you, she didn't do it the right or wrong way.

My school friends all had their their babies in their late teens/twenties and now their children are growing up and becoming more independent, sometimes I feel envious when I read on fb that they are off to yet another music festival and buying new clothes because they aren't spending all their money on childcare, but i'm actually only a teeny bit envious because I have been there and done it. Now I'm happy to be living the quiet life with my children and no doubt they were also a teeny bit envious when I was backpacking around the world whilst they were knee high in nappies.

nowthen I (like quite a few women of my vintage) was told aged 15 that I had better hurry up and start having babies by my GP.
This would solve my horrible period pains apparently
I didnt take his advice.

Sorry nowthen I meant to say how horrible for you to be treated that way

MrsDV it's not just you, and LRD, that thinks that.

I get the rage whenever the tandem bicycle of older mothers-SN is wheeled out as a reason we should get all hand-wringy.

I'm genuinely embarrassed at the extent to which I didn't read the OP.

You should be able to support yourself and a baby before you decide to have one. This is why age is a factor, simple as that. Not even worth a debate.

What would i have done with my children though gathering when i buggered off round the world being free and having the time of my life? Should i have inflicted my irresponsibility on to them, left them at home with someone else, not gone myself, or just not had them until i was in a more settled place and emotionally more ready to have children?

Some people just don't want babies in their 20s, regardless of career. I'm 32 and was the first of all my friends to have a baby. One friend has been with her partner for 14 years, got a good job - and post-graduate training - and is on her second house. There is no one and no thing stopping her having a baby; she just doesn't want one yet.

I met Dh at 24 and married him at 26, but I was too happy being slim and buying shoes to jump straight into having a baby. BEsides, I wanted to spend time having fun with him. I'm glad I did, because having kids really does end the life you've known before nd I don;t think anything society did could change that - unless we adopted the Brave NEW WRold moddel- but then we wouldn't be mothers...oh nevermind, I've lost it now.

I am sure not every doctor, and not every person, judges younger mothers. But it's undeniable there is a stigma. I don't know a single person who became pregnant under the age of 25 who didn't find at least one person encouraged them to abort or assumed they would. And I know lots of people who had their babies under the age of 25 (and some who did terminate).

None of the people I know who had babies betwen 18 and 25 have needed any outside support, so it is clearly simple prejudice.

Sorry, I should say outside paid support. I do know people whose families gave them loads of unpaid support.

I'd be interested to see older mothers/special needs statistics as well. I wouldn't be surprised if it was mainly about downs syndrome. I had 2 miscarriages in my 20's and gave birth to 3 children who have disabilities.

Older mothers are more likely to have difficult pregnancies and births. Its not just the risk of downs. Traumatic births have increased risks for both mother and child.

Prehaps my complaint is the dislain that younger mothers are treated. I was 26 years old when I had my first child. I had a health visitor who banged on how I was ever so young. Anyone would have thought that I was young teen.

NowThenWreck I think is awful how you are treated. A woman of any age with an unplaned pregancy should be treated with compassion.

Oh gosh in my 20s I wasn't remotely ready for a baby even though I was broody. I had dd when I was 30 and even so I didn't have her with the right man. I am still waiting for Mr Right. IMO any time between 18 and 45 is a good time to have a baby.

Thank you, MrsDeVere. I do love a bit of platitude bingo though, I have to say.

I was 30 when I conceived my DS who has Downs. Had my rotten old eggs and I left it too late in your book OP? I'm pg again (and still not old); should I get myself down the clinic in case lightning strikes twice?

As someone said upthread, by age-related SN you mean Downs. Can you explain to me why it is better if children like my DS are not born? Inflammatory phrasing perhaps, but I think that's what it boils down to.

I had ds at 25 and personally feel done with child bearing now! Would have like another in my 20s but things didn't work out like that. I'm 32 and feel too old to be thinking I might have a baby in a few years like some women!

I am with you on the treatment of young mothers, RT. But I would worry that if we use risk to an unborn child as a criteron for what women should do, we come close to blaming women for having children who turn out to have spec needs. And that's awful in so many ways.

Where are the men in all of this? Father's age is also a factor, I believe?

And many women have hard labours and pregnancies for reasons not to do with age. Shouldn't they make their own choices? And if they should, why is it different for each individual woman with regard to age?

*special needs. I can't type.

I think childcare cost is the biggest barrier to returning to work

Having children earlier would not reduce the incidence of SN. It would increase it, and here's why. Screening for possible birth defects isn't routinely offered to younger mums-in-waiting, but to those older women perceived to be at greater risk. What was happening from the mid-90s onwards was an increase in older women aborting because of identified birth defects, therefore there was decrease in such births to older women. Meanwhile, the unscreened younger women became the ones statistically more likely to give birth to child with SN.

Older women were still more likely to conceive such a child, but far less likely to continue with pregnancy.

There's a whole other discussion to be had about what choices younger women would make if they were all offered the screening available to older women.
It also, I feel, says a lot about the support people think they'll get for their child with SN in today's society.

You say that reallytired, but i don't know any older mums who have had a terrible pregnancy and birth. (And theres quite a large old gimmers club where I live ) Sure theres plenty out there that I dont know of course, but theres also plenty of younger mums that have had a pretty rough time with it too. But if your real complaint is how you felt you were treated as a 26 year old mum, then fine, although i suspect you probably just didnt have a very good hv. Don't take it out on the old gimmers who are happy with their lot though.

I was born when my mother was 23. In her eyes I ruined her career which was based on her artistic skill, beauty and perfection and her life because it meant she had to marry a man she didn't love.

I met my husband when I was 30(ish). All I ever wanted were children but I fought shy of settling down for a very long time because of my difficult upbringing and parents' multiple failed marriages.

Eventually when I was ready, I feel in love and we wanted a huge family: We eventually managed two healthy, live children.

DS1: 34.5
DS2: 37 (died due to congenital problems shortly after he was born at 27 weeks - we chose not to abort after the 20 week scan in case there was a tiny chance he would survive and because we believed it to be immoral).
DD: 38

Before and between I also had two late miscarriages and numerous very early ones.

I don't know if it was my age, I don't know if it would have happened when I was younger or with a different man. I do know I wasn't emotionally ready in my early to mid 20s and I hadn't found the man I wanted to marry and be with forever then.

Also, I don't regret it, and if it had happened any other way I would not have the two adorable teenagers with whom I am now blessed.

As far as work goes OP, I was very successful in my 20s and early 30s; I had 8 years off and could afford to and then started again in my early 40s and after five years in a different career was successful again. Not earning mega bucks but have a professional job and a very comfortable salary - not because society made allowances for me but because of the choices I made and my determination and hard work.

Women should be free and independent enough and secure enough to have babies when they want them and when it is right for them and this is something that should never be dictated.

Well said married.

ps the risks may be elevated but only by tiny %'s.

I was 33 when I had ds and had a good pg, healthy baby and natural unmed birth - I aim to have another baby.

I think older mothers get it in the neck as much as younger mothers. We're all made to feel pants about our decisions.

I do think that if women are putting off having a baby due to impacts on careers then you need to remove the barriers that make it hard for mothers to progress in their careers.

Whether or not I had DC, I wouldn't have the energy now to devote to building my career in the same way as I did when I was in my early and mid 20s. Surely part of the point of career building when young is to reap the rewards later in terms of time and money - difficult to do with kids around.