To wish the word "narc" and its general usage could be wiped off the face of Mumsnet.

[GothAnneGeddes]

Narc as in short for Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

There is a lot of debate about personality disorders within mental health and how they should be categorised anyway.

Often this term is used on Mumsnet when the person has never been diagnosed with any form of mental health issue, it's just a lazy shorthand for behaviours that the poster doesn't like. Then you have people who've never even met the person being discussed diagnosing them with it on here.

AIBU to think that armchair diagnosis is a bad idea and it needs to stop?

It doesn't matter. It's a label on which to hang a set of unpleasant behaviour patterns. Nobody's trying to diagnose him. If the poster is helped by seeing that her partner's weirdness fits a certain pattern, then that poster is helped.

Nobody's trying to send the guy off to a mental institution. In the very rare event that a sufferer of one of the more aggressive forms of PD seeks diagnosis (rare because they like being sociopathic), there's no effective treatment anyway.

It hardly seems worth inventing a whole new pack of Mumsnet-only labels for personality types, which already have serviceable names.

YANBU!

There are a lot of 'undiagnosed aspies' on the relationship boards too

Totally agree - can we also add passive-aggressive to the list?

FWIW narcissism is a developmental phase - very early,baby stage. We all have nrcissistic traits in our personality and healthy narcissism is good - means we wash and look presentable,show a good face to the world. NPD is something else.

Well I'm going to go against the grain a bit and say YABU

• Just because I think acknowledging some of the ways we are all different and the mental health issues that affect us and our relationships is generally a good thing.

I think I may have attention deficit traits, my DD has mild dyslexia and similar traits to me. DH can be emotionally abusive at times but I have yet to understand why. I have a tendency to long-standing mild depression (possibly related ?) I just think looking out for these sorts of things can be helpful in trying to make sense of our lives and relationships.

Better than just assuming everyone is the same and NT (neuro-typical)

tee - yes, me too. I just think that, given depression is one of those illnesses where people often feel reluctant to seek help, it is quite important when people start threads, to err on the side of caution and sympathy. I doubt many GPs mind someone coming to them who turns out not to have depression.

I suppose I mean it is different from people 'diagnosing' their nasty ex with 'autism' - which like hecate, makes me cross.

harlot (great name) - 'passive-aggressive' - is that even a diagnosis?

It is used in AIBU too and in this case i think its projection.
i.e. my sister wants a big party, she is so narc! why should i waste my evening to go there so that she is the centre of attention?

(And then 100xposters : 'oh that's so narc, i never had birthday party i only invite myself as i don't want to cause stress on others and my wedding cost £1.98 and our sofa is 200 years old').

Another YABU I'm afraid

I take your point about some people being far too quick to diagnose others and stick a label on them. However, I'm fairly sure that my parents are both 'narcs' (a conclusion reached through years of research and psychotherapy) and for people on the Relationships boards who have had similar experiences, it is useful to use 'narc' as a shorthand to describe a range of specific behaviours.

Also, when going through a difficult relationship with parents/partners/whoever and looking for support, it's a lot more useful to have someone suggest that it may be worth thinking about for example, NPD, rather than just saying that person is a 'knob' or a 'shit' or whatever. In my experience anyway.

It's ridiculous. I have BPD and it took me 6 years to get a formal diagnosis. Seeing personality disorders bandied about on here like they're so common is galling.

It has ruined my life and yet people just see it as a number of irritating behaviours.

Do you not think that quite a few people might have something going on that makes them NNT though yellowraincoat - either themselves or for those close to them and so affecting their relationships ?

Very at Laquitar's birthday party 'thread', but agree with LRD. A huge part of what happens on Relationships threads is recognising that not everybody does think like a 'normal' (NT) person. If you keep expecting a person to be NT when experience says they are unable to, you're on a bumpy road to nowhere.

FWIW, both ASDs and PDs involve very rigid thinking patterns. Many NT folks find such rigidity difficult to live with; the rest of their thread is likely to be about whether their partner is able or willing to make compromises.

This post looks like Acronym Central

I get what you are saying yellow, but FWIW I can think of quite a lot of MNers who do have BPD (diagnosed by doctors, treated, etc. etc.), including a lovely woman who has been diagnosed quite recently.

Obviously it shouldn't be reduced to 'irritating behaviours' or diagnosed online, but some mental illnesses and personality disorders are relatively common and I think juggling has a point about not assuming everyone is NT.

garlic I would love to take credit but I think you mean juggling, not me.

I'm fairly sure that my parents are both [sociopathic] (a conclusion reached through years of research and psychotherapy) and for people on the Relationships boards who have had similar experiences, it is useful to use 'narc' as a shorthand to describe a range of specific behaviours. Me, too.

Why on earth shouldn't people like Pianos and me share what we learned the hard way?

don't know. i have been accused of having mental health problems many times on mumsnet - by people who don't agree with what i'm saying. but i don't accuse them of such things. which makes me ok and them barmy, i'd say

Oops, LRD, I did mean juggling, thanks!

I guess "accusing" someone of having mental health problems or diagnosing someone with a condition when it's not even been raised as a possibility is not so great though !

Yanbu. I feel v uncomfortable with bandying around labels unless it's to help someone seek appropriate help/diagnosis for themselves/children, rather than to criticise others. Yes, calling somebody on unpleasant/abusive even narcissistic behavior, fine, I'm not suggesting that bad behaviour be swept under the carpet but online DX of PD in others goes too far.

YABU

I know a psychiatrist who is boggling at the number of women he sees that want DX's of Aspergers for their partners.

His opinion is that some people are autistic, yes. And others are just nasty bastards. Having a label won't help that!

My son has HFA. He is not nasty, abusive or unkind. ASD is not short hand for Abusive Shit Disorder. Some people are dicks.

YY juggling, there are lots separate things, aren't there?

Saying 'you/your ex/whoever obviously has [insert disorder diagnosable only by a professional here]' or 'I think I'm a bit [insert disorder again]' is annoying and disrespectful to people who do have that disorder.

Saying you're worried you may have something, or it may be worth checking something out, is different.

And applying a term that's jargon, like 'passive aggressive' or 'toxic', is different again and may help as a shorthand to explain what you mean, but isn't a medical diagnosis at all and IMO is a different category of term from medical diagnoses.

Why does it matter whether it's a medical diagnosis? Seriously, LRD, do you think we should invent new terms for rigid personality types?

"Rigid personality type" happens to be a medical descriptor for personality disorder, btw.

So what words should we use, according to you?

I think it matters only in that if you use a term that requires a doctor to diagnose, it's useful for people to know that. So if someone says 'I am a bit autistic, myself, I looked online and saw I match the definition - very shy', to me, there is a problem. Or people who say 'I am dyslexic, I can't spell'. The problem with self-diagnosis is that firstly, it gives people a false impression of that condition (eg., being autistic is not the same as being shy; dyslexic is not simply about spelling). But also, people sometimes don't realize a self-diagnosis won't get them the help they need if they really have that condition. So I get students occasionally who tell me they are dyslexic. Then they say they've never been diagnosed - do they need to be? The problem is, in order to get them support, you then have to rush like mad to get an assessment (which is pricey these days), and to get the support. It is very tough.

I think that is different from, say, suggesting someone is being 'passive agressive'. That's a subjective opinion, isn't it? It's a piece of jargon anyone could use if they felt it described the person. I'm not saying it's necessarily less accurate, or anything like that, but IMO it matters that people know how to get help, and blurring the difference between diagnosis and description makes that harder.

I like the "nasty bastard" label. Quite happy to use that one

In my case, my therapist suggested my x had narcissistic behaviour, from what I had been talking about in sessions over a year. And it helped me a lot, because I was constantly trying to rationalise his behaviour and couldn't, and this gave me a reason why. I haven't diagnosed him, and certainly not with NPD. But narcissism is a spectrum, where all people have some in them from childhood and a little is healthy, but some have less and some have more. So I don't see the problem with using it. My x also has depression and alcoholism and that was lots of doctors and shrinks that told him.

But actually what I do agree with: I would not label someone else's OH in a post (or at least I really hope I haven't), rather I prefer to discuss my experiences and if they relate to bits then I hope they have got something out of it. It is cathartic for me too.

I knew a bit about NPD before but then I read loads about it from link on the relationship board.

I used to think my EX was a nasty horrible cunt.I also used to think it was just him Now on reflection I think its quite likely he does have a personality disorder! As someone else said there are whole almost textbook sets of behaviors that appear in a narcississitissst...can never spell it.

It quite probably is over used on here but I think when it is being applied to someone with extreme behaviors its probably fairly accurate.

As for the whole 'he may have aspergers' said when someone is quite clearly being an abusive cunt that does my head in.

Autism doesn't = abusive.

NPD generally does = abusive.

If we can use NPD as a shorthand for irritating behaviours, can we use M.E as a shorthand for feeling tired a lot?

It is wrong to use any disease/illness as a shorthand whether mental or physical.