when I say I'm sick to death of tutored kids?

[TopBoxCorbelle]

I came away from the end of year assembly having watched awards being given out for progress and achievement. Two of the winners for 'progress' and 'achievement' are frequenters of our local tutoring centre. Their parents are actually perfectly lovely people who I like and get on with, and I've actually had to drop one kid off at the tutor when I was looking after him. Now, I know I'm clearly in the minority of parents that don't tutor mine, and I'd like to point out my two got amazing grades this year so have nothing to prove BUT, I hate having to applaud the cheating parents who send their kids for extra work as I always then start wondering whether mine will start falling behind...and wether mine will need tutors in order to survive the competitive entry exams at 11. Even typing this makes me question why I'm worrying but frankly, I can't believe that the tutoring industry has a hold over me, even when I choose not to tutor. And even when I have naturally bright children who do enough work at school. Anyone else? Or am I an utter churlish witch? Should I give in now and just book one up?

It isn't cheating, but it does make me sad sometimes.

We have 3 kids at our school that win the prizes for everything - they are tutored out of a "normal" life... ok they are going to be doctors/lawyers etc, but they haven't a clue how to relate to us "plebs" since they have little time for playing/interacting/being bored........

If you mean the 11+ by the way, my friend is a grammar school teacher and he says that the kids who have been intensively tutored for the 11+ stand out a mile at grammar school as they struggle to keep up. Anyone who'd do that to their child (think of their self esteem) is not a very considerate parent. Better to be doing well at the local secondary than be the thickie of the grammar IMO.

YABU. It is not cheating, it's called support, effort, dedication, hard work and determination to succeed.

Be grateful you don't have to spend money on your naturally gifted children to enable them to achieve their potential.

NEXT!

Then it's no different to passing a driving test is it?

Of course you've going to want the best help possible to get you through that test.

If the schools are not providing the best help, sadly the only other option is to turn to private tutors.

Also, re the 11+ I just think the questions are so obscure with the verbal reasoning etc that if you arent prepped for it in some way how the hell can you get through it.

When I was a kid no one was tutored...we went into school one day and took the 11+....no one got through as we didnt have a clue what it was all about. If my DS was naturally bright enough to cope with being at a grammar school then I wouldnt hesitate to get him tutored...I know however that he would struggle to keep up and I dont want him to have 5 years of secondary school torment which is why I am not bothering with a tutor.

Cheating ?!?

So your child is struggling to learn to read and you do some extra work at home with them. Would that be cheating? And if you were calling in someone to do it because you don't think you can do it yourself. Would that be cheating too?

And how exactly the achievements from other children, who worked hard to progress like this, is in some ways depreciating the work your own dcs have done?

tutored is cheating, giving your child a bit of help is cheating Mine didnt get tutored I did have dd2 is kumon for a while but she didnt cope well , mine got prizes and achievements dd2 is dyspraxic and got 2 year prices this year along with some achievements but these kids are not cheating they are achieving and that isnt wrong is it ? did they get the prize you wanted your kid to get or something

prizes* excuse my awful typing and spelling.

Get a grip!

People have tutors for all different reasons. DD2 was tutored outside of school for a year. She had help with maths and spelling. After a year, she felt she didn't need the extra help, and chose to stop. Her improvements have continued since the tutoring stopped. Her confidence improved greatly over this period, for a number of reasons, not least of which was the help she had.

Unlike her older sister, (who has never had tutoring out of school) we did not enter her for 11+ tests for the local super selective grammar. She's not that confident yet! (ie bright enough, not confident enough.)

Do you think we should just have let her fall further and further behind in the natural scheme of things, or would the fact that she may not have been top of the class have made our actions acceptable to you? Or did she cheat?

My Dad did the 11+ in 1946. Apparently the first paper he did was a nightmare - the first time he had seen one. He then took the paper again for a different school and found it quite easy, because he knew what he was meant to be doing.

However even then, apparently kids were not all on a level playing field - instead some schools were teaching to the test and some were not. His school (rural area) didn't, and my mother's school (poorer city area) did. Apparently some kids were also tutored.

IMO it is nothing to do with intelligence - just that if you haven't seen that type of question before - you think what the hell is this. The second time you see it, you have an idea of what you were meant to be doing.

The only way to make it fair is to make sure all the children understand the types of questions before the exam. I don't think it is possible to devise a test that genuinely can't be tutored for. My other bugbear is that speed, doesn't necessarily prove intelligence. Some people are more considered, some people rush.

Oh and OP you are being unreasonable - I tutored my DD in english and maths (in english) while living abroad - turns out she is now ahead. I don't think that makes me a cheat - it means I am giving her the opportunity to learn. No different to me helping her get better at kicking a football, because I wanted her to fit in with her class of all boys. If hypothetically she got a most improved footballer award, that is rewarding the effort she needed to put in to get better. Academics is no different.

I suppose I should get my DD to give back her Yr7 Maths prize as she was tutored during Yr7. And hell if she does get a GCSE in English I should say she cheated by working her socks off with the encouragement of her English teacher and a tutor and give that back as well. Does buying a revision guide count as cheating as well because DD is pretty much stuffed.....

Teaching your children that doing extra work gets you greater results is CHILD ABUSE. Not really. They do more work, they get better results. That is how it works.

If schools weren't doing a bunch of nonsense instead of teaching, they wouldn't need tutors.

Gaaah! Went to do a few chores and came back to this. I see it's a sensitive subject everywhere, not just at the school gates.
OK, I see it as cheating because my Son's grades for example were all extremely high. They gave the average marks of his year and he's well above average - for now. He got 99% in one exam. Go on, do your worst! This is the only place I'll utter that mark to anyone outside the family!
All the tutored kids are likely to catch him up aren't they? That peeves me as he's not allowed to be naturally bright. Everyone has to be bright and at the top. I don't care what other people's kids are doing now because mine are doing well but will it stay that way? May I genuinely ask this next question, has anyone elses kids got through without tutoring? To suggest kids don't work hard if they don't go to a tutor is as bad as saying that they're cheating by going to a tutor in my opinion. Tutors are surely there for the kids that are struggling and need extra help? Not so everyone can just keep their kids in the top 25%? There are Oxbridge kids who can't write essays. How is tutoring helping?

DS has a tutor for Maths and English, he really struggled through primary school and in his SATS.
He has ASD and whilst he's getting on better in High school he's still not on a level playing field.
If he does manage to scrape a C in his GCSEs it'll be because he cheated?

So what? The kids have still worked hard regardless or being tutored or doing work with a parent. Get over yourself, its hardly cheating.

your son got great marks but if i a child isnt that bright I dont think any tutoring will make them any brighter it is helping them imo did your son get a prize today are you miffed his achievements are not recognised ?

So yes - I'm wondering what you have to get to get the prize. If you're not getting them with 99%, then perhaps a tutor can take us to 150%?

Thanks all. Interested to see what people really think and it appears I'm definitely in the minority and must need my head testing obviously.

Imagine what my kids could do with a tutor...my ego will remain extremely satisfied and I'll be able to defend it as per above.

Yabvu.

Watch your child struggle at the bottom of the class and watch them cry about it. Listen to them recalling how stupid another child told them they were when they couldn't do the work. Then you can start judging me for getting my ds extra help.

sometimes marks dont make the prizes at prize giving , my eldest got great marks but hardly any prizes I always wondered why not she was a bit of a wallflower and didnt push herself

But some children don't work hard despite being top of the class OP. my ds used to be that child, always top of the class without putting in any effort. Now he's at GS (he did a few practice papers to get used to NVR and VR questions, but no formal tutoring) it has been a big shock to him to realise that he actually has to put some effort in now. He hadnt learned how to learn if you see what I mean. It all just came so naturally, that he hadn't needed to make any effort, but he is no more worthy of a place at GS than someone who has put in effort.

Ds is now having to learn things that other, possibly less intelligent, children already know. Like how to revise, or how to teach himself.

It shouldn't matter to you if other children catch your ds up. As long as he still achieves what he is capable of, then what difference does it make. You are a loon if you think that he is somehow better than others because of his intelligence. He is not. And maybe if he puts in the same level of work that the others are putting in, he will stay on top. But tbh, I think the ones who work the hardest are the ones that deserve the recognition the most.

A tutor can only help develop the potential in the child. Maybe these 2 that had tutoring needed the extra help as they found it a struggle in school. I could have done with a maths tutor when I was a child but my parents didn't give a shit.

If either of my children need help in a subject I'll quite happily send them to a tutor, obviously, I'll be no good helping with their maths homework, hopefully DH will be.

It's about helping your child develop to their full potential, and if this is one way to do it, then so be it.

Thanks Hackmum. At least one person understands what i'm on about...

TopBox the older they get the less it will matter. Ignore.

I am open to persuasion for those who need a gateway public exam grade in an area they will never use again, or if there are learning difficulties properly diagnosed so it's more like treatment of an underlying condition. DCs can spot tutored classmates, teachers must be able to, none of them are outstanding, but more importantly they could be better if they were allowed to grow intellectually, rather than taught to whatever syllabus their parents expect to be paying for.

We have never tutored because it's not high priority enough. To be the best you can, let alone in year etc, you need a full life. You really do. We find academic outcomes are improved, faster and deeper, by intellectual and social growth. When you spend your time being coached to a syllabus, well you just have less time doing what matters. Of course every parent wants the best for their child, but sometimes you wonder how skilled they are at shopping for it.

that's an interesting post genug and one which I will take on board.

At the risk of sounding like a motivational speaker:

Qualifications, work, cooking, marathon running...

None of it is about what you're notionally capable of achieving, it's about what you actually do achieve.