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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think that women are stupid?

534 replies

lovebunny · 06/07/2012 05:57

elsewhere, there is a complaint about being unsupported when breastfeeding. this is a feminist issue - and the fault lies fairly and squarely at the feet of women.

i am astounded that after the battles fought in the seventies and eighties, women have allowed such regression.

look how stupid women are today. they have their bodies surgically adapted to men's fantasies - breasts enlarged, labia trimmed - they bleach their hair, tattoo their eyeliner and lipstick and have themselves spray-painted. they remove their pubic hair so they look like children for their (multiple) partners. if you read about it in a book on social anthropology you'd be horrified at the 'oppression' of women. but women think they are choosing this!

then they say 'oh, its not fair, no-one supports me when i'm breastfeeding'. too damn right they don't. because you and your compatriots have allowed everyone to see you as barbie dolls to use and abuse. they don't want to see you being women, being grown up, feeding your babies, that spoils the fantasy. you created this; live with it.

when you've finished screaming at me about your 'rights' to have your mons pubis decorated with fake jewels and to have your isabella piercing, organise yourselves.

wash your faces, let the fake tan fade, cut off your dyed hair and let it grow back naturally, so your babies can recognise the human being their genetic memory was expecting to find here. stay free from chemicals that mask your natural odours, so your babies can recognise you by smell. if people are pressurising you to 'go back to work' say, 'certainly. when this baby chooses to stop breastfeeding'. that gives you four to five years at home, maybe longer, when you are doing something no-one else can - being your babies' mothers.

the 'male' has been accepted as the 'norm' in society - so some early feminists wanted to be like men - some of that lingers. but feminists who believe in the strength and value of the female, have retreated into hiding. wake up! speak up! these are your daughters, sisters, aunts, even your mothers tarting themselves up and whoring themselves out to all and sundry trying to be 'wives and girlfriends'! they're too stupid to realise they've been conned!

educate your daughters. make them aware of political and societal manipulation. make women free - free from pressure to look a certain way, behave a certain way. free, in fact, to be women. free to want to eat without guilt, work, reproduce, raise children, form partnerships, find contentment and find peace of mind.

don't leave this to someone else. if strong women don't act to make the world a better place for women, no-one will. and in twenty years' time, i'll be reading 'oh, society doesn't support breast-feeding mothers'. again.

OP posts:
PlentyOfPubeGardens · 06/07/2012 20:23

you can't have it both ways - woman as mother and woman as barbie don't mix.

See, what you've got here is your classic virgin/whore dichotomy. You appear to be advocating for women to not be 'whores' and to settle down and be 'naice mummies' instead. The trick is to reject that dichotomy altogether. We can be mothers and we can be sexual and we can be loads of other things as well. We are complex human beings, just like men, and it's about time we were treated as such, rather than being continually reduced to either our reproductive or our sexual function.

there are issues around what counts as 'looking nice' for women, and who decides. someone said 'women aren't stupid, society is', which is fair enough, but women are roughly half of society, aren't they?

Absolutely there are issues around this. It's not really helpful or fair to call women stupid for going along with it though. The desire to fit in and be considered normal is a pretty basic human drive. Women have been surrounded by messages since infancy that this is what is normal if you're a woman. We internalise those messages and police ourselves and each other. It's quite brave to step outside of those norms - it seems to have got a lot harder since I was young - and not all women are realistically in a position where they have that choice. Giving up beauty practices is not a choice that society rewards you for.

ceeveebee · 06/07/2012 20:25

DPrince, exactly. There is no relationship between a woman's desire/ability to breastfeed and her beauty routine. I think this point was just thrown in there to get a reaction.

And I do not need support from "society" to feed my children, I just do it.

lovebunny · 06/07/2012 20:25

It's quite brave to step outside of those norms - it seems to have got a lot harder since I was young
exactly my point. so what are we doing about it?

OP posts:
Dprince · 06/07/2012 20:26

I just don't get why women have to cut their hair, smell 'natural' etc for bf support.
I really don't think the OP see the irony of her post.

WorraLiberty · 06/07/2012 20:28

my point is not that you can't or shouldn't do that - only that it shouldn't be expected of you, and that because that image is promoted, it leads to people expecting women to conform

And you'd rather they conformed to what you expect instead?

Latara I don't think I've ever laughed so much! Grin Grin

Latara · 06/07/2012 20:28

In fact some babies don't even have their Mums as their primary carers - what about the babies who are brought up by dads, grandparents or foster carers? Again - what matters is the personality of their parent(s) or guardian - not whether they wear lipstick or shave their head etc.

If a baby isn't breastfed by a mother at home for 5 years - well it's hardly the worst thing ever. I mean, i got given formula milk, & i'm normal. Honest! Grin

Dprince · 06/07/2012 20:33

I think its easier. When I was younger there were certain 'trends' as I have got older I see less people all dressing the same.
I have been out to lunch with 15 women and 2 men today. thinking about what people were wearing, they were all different. The highest level manager was there in jeans and a hoodie, no make up. I had jeans and a star wars t-shirt (my favourite) some were very glam and in dresses, some smart trousers, one had a hoodie on.
No one was berated for being under dressed or told they were too dressy. We are all individuals and accept each other as so. We are not all close friends but a team of people from work.

Latara · 06/07/2012 20:35

BTW - i don't think you can get germs from plates & mugs that got dried with a tea towel that's been used to dry a wet cat first... can you??? I really can't be bothered to wash everything all again :(

Dprince · 06/07/2012 20:35

Sorry another one had on a hoodie.

WorraLiberty · 06/07/2012 20:37

Errrm I'm sure there'll be protein or something there Latara

Flatbread · 06/07/2012 20:50

It is not a question of dressing differently or the same. It is the point of women being seen as objects. Sexual objects, for the most part. We are not complex human beings in our societal image, we are bloody objects of mens fantasies, used to sell motor oil to cars.

It shows in the most horrifying way in violence and rape, but it is there in so many insidious ways. The worst is we buy into it and say that the way we dress, the decisions we make are our free choice.

I honestly think society is harsh and predatory towards women. And we allow that to happen.

ginhag · 06/07/2012 20:52

Oh I really tried to catch up. But have only just seen this and am about a thousand years too late to read everything.

SO. OP. I am no barbie doll, I do not fetishise myself for men...

And I really, really DO NOT LIKE YOU.

Just sayin'

Latara · 06/07/2012 20:54

if i can't even remember to put the tea towel in the wash after drying the cat with it then if i do have a baby how will i cope? Sterilising bottles etc omg. (I won't be able to BF cos of meds).
Plus once i'm asleep i'm really out of it - even a crying hungry baby wouldn't wake me up properly.. sigh :(
I will definitely need to find & keep hold of a decent boyfriend / husband to be a proper father to my future children. Well so much for independence then. & to get a decent man at my age... it helps to look as attractive as possible. Sorry, OP.

WorraLiberty · 06/07/2012 20:56

Latara

Is your cat female?

Would she consider feeding your baby for you?

PlentyOfPubeGardens · 06/07/2012 21:00

Well, I don't know what you're doing about it, Lovebunny, beyond blaming women.

Here's what I'm doing: supporting women who BF or FF, who perform lots of femininity or who perform very little (don't know any who perform none, but I'd support them too), who are SAHM or WOHM, who have children or who don't ... because we're all just muddling through in a system that we didn't invent, that we have very little power in and that doesn't have our best interests at heart. That has to be the bottom line IMO - if you don't get that bit right it doesn't really matter what else you do.

Moving on from that, you can support campaigns against the objectification of women such as object, you can speak out against the sex industry which is responsible for the propagation of the worst excesses of this shit, and yes of course you can reject whatever aspects of performing femininity that you feel safe and comfortable with. Every time one of us does this, it gives permission to other women to also reject some of this shit.

Most importantly, and I think this is difficult because it's so ingrained, you can stop policing other women, whether as 'virgin/mothers' or as 'whores'.

Socknickingpixie · 06/07/2012 21:00

but can i wear knickers can anybody please give me a difinative answer im sat here on the sofa looking very strange and its fecking cold i would rather like to get my big huge marks and sparks knickers on to warm my bum up

ceeveebee · 06/07/2012 21:03

lovebunny, I don't know what research you did when coming ip with your "theory " but according to official figures, the proportion of women in the UK who breastfeed (for at least some feeds) has increased from 62% in 1990 to 81% in 2010. . The number of breast augmentations carried out doubled from c5000 to c10000 from 2005 to 2010 according to the British Association of Plastic Surgeons
Doesn't really work does it?

AllPastYears · 06/07/2012 21:03

On the whole I agree with you OP. Have only skimmed the other posts, but maybe we're in a minority of 2!

Mind you, I'm guessing that for the most part the women complaining about lack of support when breastfeeding are not the same ones getting boob jobs and tattooing their lips.

Am I a hypocrite though for my dyed hair Confused? As a 20-year old I refused to shave my legs or wear make-up, though I did dye my hair... now I do all three. I guess some issues at more important to us at some times of our lives, and also society changes. I would never have my cosmetic surgery though, or tattoo eye-liner on, or anything permanent. But... I have ear piercings... and pubic hair removal is not permanent - but I'd never dream of such a thing. Now I really am confusing myself!

PlentyOfPubeGardens · 06/07/2012 21:05

I think knickers are allowed as long as they're proper comfy with useful pockets Grin

WorraLiberty · 06/07/2012 21:08

Only apple catchers are allowed Sock

And you must never smile whilst wearing them....

sciencelover · 06/07/2012 21:08

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ConstantCraving · 06/07/2012 21:09

OP I TOTALLY agree!!

Latara · 06/07/2012 21:11

My cat IS female.
But she is more likely to eat the currently hypothetical baby than feed it.

(ha, OP, i'm not stupid, i can use big words too despite having dyed hair & make-up & not smelling of BO hopefully).

JugglingWithTangentialOranges · 06/07/2012 21:23

ceeveebee - Good to hear that breast-feeding rates have gone up nearly 20% since 1990 - thanks for that info Smile

WorraLiberty · 06/07/2012 21:23

So your cat is refusing to BF your hypothetical baby? (Can also copy large words)

I bet she has a pink glittery collar to attract the Toms Hmm