To think that a miscarriage shouldn't count as sickness absence from work...

[lurcherlover]

...because pregnancy complications don't, do they? You can be off for weeks with HG etc and it doesn't go on your absence record. So why does miscarriage?

The background to this is that I had tonsillitis (a recurrent problem for me) in Jan and was off for 2 days. Then in May I had a missed mc (only found out at the dating scan) and subsequently an ERPC. I was signed off for a fortnight. On my return to work ( I'm a teacher) I found a lovely letter telling me that two periods of sickness absence within 6 months triggers "attendance concerns" and that I had to attend a meeting with someone from HR, to which I could take a union rep if I wished (jeez, thanks). I was really upset and told the head I couldn't go to this meeting (what was there to be said? Did they really think I wanted to be off for a fortnight recovering from a miscarriage?) in the end the meeting didnt happen but the miscarriage still counts as a period of sickness absence.

I've now got tonsillitis again (luckily Weds is my day off) and have just been to the dr and prescribed antibiotics. She told me to take the rest of the week off, but I feel I can't (much as I should) as I will get another bloody letter and a meeting when I go back and I'm really worried my sickness record looks bad. If it wasn't for the mc I wouldn't get a letter as it's 2 episodes of sickness in 6 months that triggers it and I was last off in Jan. AIBU to think classing a mc as sickness absence is unfair? And what do I do about this week?

You poor poppet, that's just horrible.
It should be compassionate leave not sickness IMO.

I had similar discussions with my line manager over MC many years ago. I said that if my 'illness' had been caused by my immune system, accident or mental health then fine, it was my body being sick.

A baby passing or pregnancy loss was highly unlikely to be any of these things and should be classed as something other than sick leave.

I think most systems are archaic and if you are not fit to work for whatever reason it's sick leave.

I'm sorry you are having a hard time. If I were you I'd have the week off, get better. Contact your union rep and have a chat.

I agree with previous posters, it's probably a formality, a standard procedure. But I also think you could fight to have the inappropriate sick leave removed from your records.

Best wishes.

I have reported this ZOMBIE THREAD from Seven years ago as it could be very upsetting for the OP

My work have a similar policy - I had to go to the meeting, but at the mere mention of the word miscarriage the sickness was discounted. It does not count on my file towards any sickness periods. Is it possible the same thing could happen to you? It was upsetting talking about it, the HR person conducting the interview was clearly uncomfortable too, it was purely a box ticking exercise

Sooo weird to ressurect this thread!

I haven't read the full thread but wanted to say I'm sorry for your loss.

We had a similar process at my old work. I went for my meeting with HR & when I explained that the absence that triggered the process was a mc they discounted it. If you haven't already you should meet with HR, I'm sure they'll be very understanding.

Sorry, only just noticed this is a zombie thread.

We have an automatic disciplinary if there are 3 incidents of sickness in a 12 month policy. Regardless of the reason. It is not necessarily to see if you are taking the piss but to see if it is ongoing.

I think people are confusing disciplinary with absence management here.

Sick leave is treated differently to taking-the-mick-leave (assuming you don't work for the likes of Amazon or Sports Direct) and you'd have to have an awful lot of sickness for an employer to treat it as something that might lose you your job. As someone said above, they want to make sure you're not taking the mickey and you're not having problems at work.

The only thing to keep an eye on is if you thought there would be redundancies in the future. When my husband's firm went through a redundancy programme it used sick leave as one of the criteria. I thought that was harsh.

Where I work, pregnancy-related illness is classed as a sickness (although the reason is recorded as pregnancy-related sickness). It would still trigger the formal meetings (although ours are with a manager rather than HR). The meetings are both to offer support to employees (e.g. counselling if you need it) and to issue warnings if needed. If the reason is pregnancy-related no punitive action would be taken but the meeting would still take place as it would be discriminatory not to offer pregnant employees the same opportunities for support as non-pregnant employees who had been off sick.

https://www.maternityaction.org.uk/advice-2/mums-dads-scenarios/miscarriage-stillbirth-and-neonatal-death-rights-to-time-off-and-pay-for-parents/This might help. A miscarriage related absence should not count as part of your sock leave.

YANBU

A man cannot have a miscarriage so in the interests of equality it should not be counted as straight forward sicknesd

Bring a union representive in and watch them rip your management apart. Miscarriages are classed as serious for a reason - most companies even extend IVF guidelines (ie you are treated as pregnant after a transfer and allowed 2 weeks if its unsuccessful) to non-IVF pregnancies. A civilized employer would not count a miscarriafe as a sickness - strongly suggest you find another.

As for tonsilitis- if you've been signed off every time by a GP you should be fine.

I had 2 months off following my miscarriage in 2013. It went down as pregnancy related.

I was told (and my school did this) that miscarriage is definitely a pregnancy complication (it's sort of the definitional pregnancy related sickness!). Your head sounds awful OP. I had multiple miscarriages for which I needed time off and was always treated with kindness, none of the counted as sickness nor were there compassionate leave. I was signed off by the doctor for a medical situation.

To be honest, the kind of treatment you got would make me write an official complaint and get a new job

Jesus. Haven't RTFT but what is the story with your union. Teachers should not be working under those conditions. That's bloody awful. How did things get to that, where you're summoned to answer questions about being SICK as if you've been naughty. How demeaning.

I'm not in the UK so it may be a general culture. Goodness me.

Why don't people read the bloody threads?!!

Poor you, but pretty standard in the public sector. I was off after my MIL died who was like a second mother to me. I was given one day off on Compassionate Leave, came back to work, and ended up crying in work. I was signed off sick by my GP for 2 weeks, and then had to attend one of these meetings for sickness.

Honestly, those saying with the tonsilitis, if you have been signed off you are fine, are simply wrong. I know people who have been sacked for genuine certified illness in the public sector. It is standard practice that you have to go to meetings if you have so many periods off sick, and they often set you a target of acceptable sick leave at these meetings. If you go over it, you are at real risk of being sacked.

I used to work for royal mail and miscarriages were exempt from any attendance procedure. After my last one I had to attend a meeting and explain I'm detail why I was off for two weeks - medical management gone wrong, admitted with heavy bleeding, retained products. It was awful to sit there and go through it. However they couldn't take any action over my absence.

If your GP wrote miscarriage on the medical certificate, it does not count as an absence that contributes towards the trigger. It is pregnancy related and therefore is documented as sick leave but cannot count towards any disciplinary action and cannot be declared to prospective new employers when they ask for a reference.

If your employer does count it in any meetings, I would contact a union rep or ACAS for advice as they are mistaken.

I had a mc and needed time off work but I did not trust the information to remain confidential so I told my manager in person but requested the GP did not write it on the sick certificate. For this reason, it would have triggered a meeting with further episodes but my manager could have discounted it at the meeting if it went that far.

hackmum - everybody is different, you may have been fit for work in a couple of days but the difficulty of trying to conceive for 2 years, finally getting pregnant then miscarrying meant I needed much longer to get over it emotionally no matter how straightforward the medical aspect was.

i work in an nhs trust where preganacy related sickness needs sickline from the doctor - friend has horrendous HG and she puts sicklines in. For her miscarriages she just filled in self cert then showed hospital letter

it's box ticking, perhaps someone registered your sickness reason incorrectly on the system so it flagged

I agree with PP, I think that the management won't have much discretion here. We have had people off with one off things and we know it's no cause for concern ie it's something that couldn't be helped and no good will come of taking it any further but we still have to go through the motions of having the meeting and talking it over from the absence point of view.
To be honest though I would suggest you rearrange the meeting. Part of the point of having it is to see if support can be offered to you eg shorter working hours for a temporary period, reduced workload because you are struggling, counselling (if you want it)and a chance to discuss it (if you want to). Sickness meetings are not just about telling people off they are about doing what you can to help someone so they won't be sick in the future eg it's easier to help and support you now than you be off with stress/depression in the future when something could have been done to help.
I am very sorry for your loss and I totally understand why you feel this is just the icing on the cake but take any support they can offer you.
Are you in a union? Could your union rep come to the meeting for support? Or could you bring a friend or your mum? Do your union offer any help in a practical sense like counselling? If you aren't in one most will help if you join today.
Try not to take the sickness procedure personally. I guarantee your manager would have been dreading the meeting and really worried about adding to your distress.
Take care x

pg related illness goes down as sickness here.

There should be more compassion in the workplace including for sick leave and then this wouldn't be such a problem. I think you've raised an important issue though.
Hopefully talking things through with headteacher, HR, or union rep should all help. Meetings are meant to be productive but I understand your concern that in practice they aren't always. Can be better to talk more informally on your own initiative I sometimes find?
So sorry for your loss.
Hope you are also feeling better soon

Sorry didn't see this is such an old thread