To think that a miscarriage shouldn't count as sickness absence from work...

[lurcherlover]

...because pregnancy complications don't, do they? You can be off for weeks with HG etc and it doesn't go on your absence record. So why does miscarriage?

The background to this is that I had tonsillitis (a recurrent problem for me) in Jan and was off for 2 days. Then in May I had a missed mc (only found out at the dating scan) and subsequently an ERPC. I was signed off for a fortnight. On my return to work ( I'm a teacher) I found a lovely letter telling me that two periods of sickness absence within 6 months triggers "attendance concerns" and that I had to attend a meeting with someone from HR, to which I could take a union rep if I wished (jeez, thanks). I was really upset and told the head I couldn't go to this meeting (what was there to be said? Did they really think I wanted to be off for a fortnight recovering from a miscarriage?) in the end the meeting didnt happen but the miscarriage still counts as a period of sickness absence.

I've now got tonsillitis again (luckily Weds is my day off) and have just been to the dr and prescribed antibiotics. She told me to take the rest of the week off, but I feel I can't (much as I should) as I will get another bloody letter and a meeting when I go back and I'm really worried my sickness record looks bad. If it wasn't for the mc I wouldn't get a letter as it's 2 episodes of sickness in 6 months that triggers it and I was last off in Jan. AIBU to think classing a mc as sickness absence is unfair? And what do I do about this week?

Lord not sure where you work, but I work in the public sector and we are not allowed to take annual leave instead of sick under any circumstances.

it sounds like local authority box-ticking... my wife and i suffwered a stillbirth last year and i was off for a few months coping with that...when i came back i got the letter saying i had been off sick for a certain amount of time and this had triggered "attendance concerns"....i met my manager and his manager who were both really apologetic and were just like "we know why you were off and we arn't going to take this further"

just one of those things...sad but true!

Sorry I meant time off after your miscarriage should be classed as compassionate leave. I think it would be at my workplace.

all workplaces have automatic systems in relation to sickness to make sure that employees arent taking the mickey but more so that managers do their jobs and speak to people. this procedure is more about making sure your manager is doing her/his job than about your individual circumstances. the defination of what counts as sick and what doesnt isnt enshrined in law - it is whatever your employer says it is.if you have recurrent tonsilitis and it is affecting your ability to work then you need to get referred asap to an ent. lots of people have to have them out later in life and you may be one of them. dont let it drag on though. I am sorry about your miscarriage it is a really miserable thing to have happen and noone can make you feel any better about it. your work isnt deliberately trying to be insensitive they just have written procedures they have to follow. sort out your tonsilitis though before trying to conceive again if i were you.

The girl I jobshare with had an m/c a couple of years ago. She was off work for a week and it was recorded as "complications in pregnancy". I work for a large public body.

YANBU

I was given 5 days compassionate leave for a MMC, I had a great boss. I had to take sick leave when I had an ERPC a couple of weeks later (failed medical management) but I think that was fair enough as it was my choice to do it that way. My sick leave was paid and they didn't rush me into coming back.

Sorry for your loss btw xxx

YANBU - a few years ago I had quite a late MC, had quite a lot of problems and got a horrible infection so had to have an Emergency D&C etc, then got horrendous infection after that and had lots more complications, so ended up having to have about 2 weeks off.
Got a written warning and had to have loads of meetings and interviews with bosses who had absolutely no sympathy for me at all.
It was so annoying as inbetween having the MC and having to have D&C, I went into work for a few hours before being sent home because of pain - this meant that it was classed as 2 bouts of illness, and another written warning.

So sorry for you though OP

Lurcher

I don't think it's fair. I think it's pretty disgusting that they've shown no compassion, but if you went to the meeting you could explain all this and they'd probably strike it from your record anyway.

However I still don't see they have any choice, your illness was not pregnancy related as unfortunately you miscarried, for which I am sorry.

My miscarriage was recorded as pregnancy related absence and didn't count in sick total. I'm sorry you are going through this.

I don't see how a miscarriage isn't pregnancy related, as without a pregnancy, there couldn't be a miscarriage? However this is just my opinion obviously.

I'm and that anyone would think that compassionate leave isn't appropriate here. It isn't flu ffs. There's no excuse for a line manager who can't be sensitive and sympathetic to staff in this kind of situation.

We have an automatic disciplinary if there are 3 incidents of sickness in a 12 month policy. Regardless of the reason. It is not necessarily to see if you are taking the piss but to see if it is ongoing.

I had it when i had a stroke and was diagnosed with MS. A colleague had it when they had cancer and their eye removed. In fact they said with the level of time off they had they dismissed them as the business couldn't cope with an employee who had long term sick.

It is awful but it is the way private companies often are.

DontKnowWhatToDoo are you serious? Surely that is corporate bullying. I'm sure you could take them to an employment tribunal for that. I am a manager and that would go completely against company policy for an employer to treat and employee like that.

YANBU. Definitely. I had a miscarriage last year. I was in hospital for 3 days because I had lost so much blood and then an ERPC. I then became anaemic, so in total I was actually off for a month. I told my head of department who was very sympathetic, and said she would let my manager know. On my return to work, I had a meeting with my manager who said it would go down as sickness record and she would formally record (on paper) our meeting to HR, and I would get a letter confirming this. My letter, also, said I had a raised non-attendance at work, but on discussion with me, I had apparently assured my manager that it wouldn't happen again.

Would you believe, I work for the NHS. My manager is a nurse, as is my head of department. I am happily on maternity leave now, but on my return I am resigning as I thought my manager's attitude was appalling. Not one ounce of sympathy. Head of dept was lovely, as she explained she had had 6 miscarriages in her life. Will be having my exit interview with her.

However. Not sure what else the leave should be classed as? When I was pregnant first time and I had a couple of days off with very bad morning sickness, it was still classed as normal sick leave. Maybe I just have a vile manager...

It's a shit one, I don't know what else your work can do. I know my pregnancy related illnesses were still recorded and did trigger meetings but couldn't be used against me for disciplinary or redundancy things. Is that maybe what your work are doing?

It is sickness as any other pregnancy related complication is and is therefore sick leave, but cannot be counted as sick leave for the purposes of absence management and disciplinary. I suspect this is what you mean OP. I am sorry you went through this, I've been there myself.

To whoever argued that mc isn't a complication of pregnancy as you're not pregnant any more

It is an automated process - most employers will do this when you hit a trigger. The meeting is there to make sure that there are no underlying issues which are preventing you from fulfilling your contract. They'll talk to you but I would be surprised if it leads to any action. Your school has to be seen to be treating everyone equally but they are able to use their discretion. I have done these meetings with people with serous long term illnesses but it's never been with a view to disciplinary action - its just so that everything is recorded and above board. As for advising about a Union rep - that's a legal requirement for any discipline / grievance related meetings and is there for your protection, its not intended to make you think something serious is going to happen.

I honestly wouldn't worry - its a formality that's all. Hope you don't let it get you down.

YABU to be worried really - you will have the meeting and they will discover that:

1 - you are not skiving
2 - there is not an issue with work itself that is making you ill

and they will be satisfied.

Maybelater what is wrong with you for goodness sake, that is totally uncalled for.

OP it does sound unfair, and think as someone suggested they should be able to use their discretion on something like this and it shouldn't have triggered an attendance review.

If I was in your position, I would probably struggle in tomorrow and Friday if you possibly can just because you probably don't need the added stress of another letter. I hope you feel better soon.

I was told this when it happened to me (teacher too, though employers lovely about it) but since found out they were wrong - there was another thread on this and someone kindly showed me a link to a section on the EHRC website where they very clearly said that miscarriage should come under pregnancy related absence. On phone so might be hard to come up with link, will have a look.

My m/c was treated as pregnancy relatedabsence and not counted as sickness on my record. I think a meeting with HR would have been prudent to clarify the situation and put your point across. These meetings are a two-way process - to see if your employer can offer any support also.

As others have said, it is probably standard procedure, although shitty for you. Why not ask union rep for advice or take the initiative and speak to HR yourself?

Agree with Bertha, it counts but you can't count it, but Bertha worded it perfectly.

YANBU. I had a very traumatic late miscarriage (haemorragh and clinical shock) and am a teacher as well.

A later episode of flu triggered a sickness meeting - in which I explained the previous absence was for a miscarriage - and I was told it would not count, and so the meeting would not go on record, but the system still flags them up. Maybe your school's HR system does the same?

It should count as pregnancy related and not count towards sick days.They can still ask for a meeting, but you cant ne penalised for it, that would be discrimination.
It's not compassionate leave as you were signed off by a doctor, in other words not physically able to work. Compassionate leave is agreed with your employer for reasons other than your health, like caring for a sick relative.