To think that a miscarriage shouldn't count as sickness absence from work...

[lurcherlover]

...because pregnancy complications don't, do they? You can be off for weeks with HG etc and it doesn't go on your absence record. So why does miscarriage?

The background to this is that I had tonsillitis (a recurrent problem for me) in Jan and was off for 2 days. Then in May I had a missed mc (only found out at the dating scan) and subsequently an ERPC. I was signed off for a fortnight. On my return to work ( I'm a teacher) I found a lovely letter telling me that two periods of sickness absence within 6 months triggers "attendance concerns" and that I had to attend a meeting with someone from HR, to which I could take a union rep if I wished (jeez, thanks). I was really upset and told the head I couldn't go to this meeting (what was there to be said? Did they really think I wanted to be off for a fortnight recovering from a miscarriage?) in the end the meeting didnt happen but the miscarriage still counts as a period of sickness absence.

I've now got tonsillitis again (luckily Weds is my day off) and have just been to the dr and prescribed antibiotics. She told me to take the rest of the week off, but I feel I can't (much as I should) as I will get another bloody letter and a meeting when I go back and I'm really worried my sickness record looks bad. If it wasn't for the mc I wouldn't get a letter as it's 2 episodes of sickness in 6 months that triggers it and I was last off in Jan. AIBU to think classing a mc as sickness absence is unfair? And what do I do about this week?

PS: sorry you are having a hard time and about your mc.

Yor sitituation is unfair and needs fixing by law. But, at the risk of stating the obvious, it hasn't been. and everyone knows that.

The smart move is to go along with the automatic procedures with willing and politeness, so everyone will realise what's happened in your case and make any adjustments they can accordingly.

Making your point might help - stropping out won't. That sounds awful, but you won't be doing yourself - or fairness - any favours.

Sorry for your loss lurcherlover

I would have expected miscarriage to count as pregnancy related sickness, given that you can't possibly have a miscarriage without being pregnant.

As others have said, the meeting to discuss attendance has probably been automatically triggered by HR systems. But if you're sure that the time off following your miscarriage hasn't been recorded as pregnancy-related sickness (but is instead recorded as 'ordinary' sickness), I'd ask HR to correct that in their systems. And be sure to explain that if you do have to go to a meeting.

it was classed as pregnancy related illness for me after my mc - I think it should be classed as this.

so sorry fir your loss - I would appeal personally.

I would have thought a miscarriage would count as a pregnancy complication. I certainly do not think they can count it as sick leave due to sexual discrimination laws. pregnancy is counted differently to normal sickness because it is something that only effects women, hence it comes under discrimination laws. So being penalized for having a miscarriage sounds like it would be illegal under discrimination and pregnancy law. I would double check the law and speak to a union rep., then go to the HR meeting and raise the possibility they are breaking the law. govdirect normally has good information regarding the law and rights.
One poster said that at her company all pregnancy related illness is counted as normal illness, and if the baby is lost after 26 weeks they give you full maternity leave. The law is 24 weeks as this is not a ,miscarriage, but a stillbirth, and if the baby is born alive before this time and then dies you are still entitled to full maternity leave.

www.direct.gov.uk/en/Parents/Moneyandworkentitlements/WorkAndFamilies/Pregnancyandmaternityrights/DG_10026556

The above link and a booklet you can download states that illness related to pregnancy must not count towards disciplinary procedures as you must not be put at a disadvantage due to pregnancy. I would count miscarriage as being very related to pregnancy, therefore if you doctor is prepared to sign you off it should not legally count towards a disciplinary procedure, and it should not have triggered an HR meeting. Try emailing the hr and your boss, with this information, you could send them the booklet.

that must be illegal, so sorry they have treated you so badly, bunch of arses

please fight this.
it is not fair
it is pg related, of course it is.

and you know what i would do, next time your sick, take ages off.
fuck them

Set up your own meeting with HR and ask them what health and safety policy is.

When I was writing a health and safety policy I wrote a simple one but had references to bigger / unusual issues. The miscarriage (sorry can't remember what it was) policy was included in the maternity policy and the still birth policy.

If your tonsilitis is something that keeps occuring you could be covered under DDA/Equality act and your employer may have to make a reasonable adjustment that it will not count tonsilitis as sick leave.

If an employee expects to be paid sick pay, absence is recorded as sick leave and the sick pay rules apply. Maternity leave is covered by maternity pay.

Sickness absence relating to pregnancy should be considered on a case by case basis and should not be counted towards capability/disciplinary providing there is a reasonable expecation of the person's attendance improving in line with the norm or with an agreed adjustment for a recognised disability confirmed by occupational health.

I don't think tonsillitis is covered by the DDA because it is not a permanent condition and needs to be dealt with. If the OP is struggling to get the right antibiotics/tonsillectomy then this can be discussed with OHP who may be able to write to the GP.

Some pregnancy related illness does need to be counted, for example, at the end of the maternity leave if a woman had developed an ongoing medical condition related to the pg, she would at some stage have to return to work and could not indefinitely have her job kept open. There has to be a reasonable expectation of return or a reasonable expectation of reasonable attendance albeit with reasonable adjustments. If neither can be achieved it is breach of contract due to capability and a dismissal would be fair even bearing in mind the Equality Act, DDA, etc.

Notwithstanding that, the OP is being treated with a sledgehammer and the approach needs to be modified. As I have explained above, it is not how I would go about things because staff need to be supported through short term difficulties.

Really sorry for your loss. I had 3 miscarriages when I was working and was given compassionate leave. I went back to work quickly, within two or three days each time though.

marriedinwhite,
you are incorrect. It is illegal to treat pregnancy related sickness as normal sickness but a woman experiencing pregnacy related sickness must be paid. A woman must not be put at a disadvantage to her none pregnant colleagues.
An HR department who treats pregnany related sickness on a case by case basis with a reasonable expectation they will get better during their pregnancy, is acting illegally. The law states the woman must be paid for abscene due to pregnancy related illness, and must not be disciplined for it. the only exception is that if the illness occurs in the four weeks before birth and is going to be continuous the woman can be asked to start maternity leave. Otherwise the woman can spend the entire pregnancy on pregnancy related sick leave and not have it counted against her or have disciplinary action, or have them counted as sick leave.
The law on stillbirth is that any woman who experiences a stillbirth (or a baby born before 24 weeks that lives only shortly after birth) must be given full maternity leave.

This thread does suggest that employers are all really doing their own thing with regard to the sickness of pg women. Which I think is quite alarming.

"Sickness absence relating to pregnancy should be considered on a case by case basis and should not be counted towards capability/disciplinary providing there is a reasonable expecation of the person's attendance improving in line with the norm or with an agreed adjustment for a recognised disability confirmed by occupational health."

Marriedinwhite this is absolutely 100% wrong and illegal to boot. If you, as an HR professional, are advising your company to this effect then you are steering them towards an employment tribunal sooner or later.

Sickness absence related to pregnancy must not be counted towards capability/disciplinary proceedings full stop, no ifs buts or maybes. To do anything else is discrimination under the Equality Act.

I agree iggi,
It seems companies are just disregarding the law when it comes to pregnancy related sickness. The fact that a few posters claim to be in HR, and then write they break the law and follow their own policies instead is really worrying. Any company which has an HR policy like the one the OP describes, and treats pregnancy related sickness as normal sickness and deals with it on a case by case basis, and lets it trigger hR meetings etc could find themselves facing a major discrimination cae, with the HR department and managers all facing disciplinary action if not losing their jobs. The OP needs to put in a complaint about the HR department themselves as they are acting illegally.

What fireandashes said.

Hackmum do you think every misscarriage is the same? I suffered for 4 months with my misscarriage, It started it in July last year, iv only now just been signed off from hospital now, 6 months later!!!

I thought you were going to be a teacher from your first sentence! My school is exactly the same about absences-it's totally bizarre and you are right-it shouldn't be treated as sickness.

Miscarriage is a pregnancy complication and shouldn't count towards sickness

I'm sorry for your loss
For some reason I don't think that a Mc does count as a reason arising from pregnancy
When I had my Mc I had Private treatment under DH employment medical insurance which did not allow for any pregnancy related treatment.
No idea why this should be the case but it seems that unfortunately for you it is.

This thread is nearly 7 years old .

Still, very unfair though, hope things became easier for the OP.

ZOMBIE THREAD

Not 7, 5. Too early.

I'm so sorry for your loss! I would record this as pregnancy related illness and it would not count. However, even if it was listed as SL it certainly wouldn't trigger any proceedings in the basis it is certainly explained and would not require any input as not work related.

However, we own our own company and treat people individually and don't have the same beauracratic loopholes to jump through.

Interesting comment Iggi, I wonder how the law applies when you are in a job with no sick pay? I was given all the time off I needed for my MCs and later pregnancy, just wasn't paid...
And my mat pay was reduced as I had been off sick (unpaid...) during the relevant week for assessing the mat pay rate. I screamed blue murder but HR dug in their heels.

Ancient history now.