To email the school re a man at the bus stop???

[JumpingThroughHoops]

Well I have emailed, so no AIBU about it really

Yesterday (Friday) 20 mins after primary school ended I saw a man at the bus stop outside the school. The bus stop usually has a large amount of teenaged girls waiting from the secondary opposite.

He was by himself indicating a bus had just been; there were no other adults or children around.

BUT. Earlier that morning the same man was at the primary sports day. He wasn't with a lady (for that read wife or partner), no reason why he should have been really, he might have been a single dad. BUT. He was chatting with another father, or rather he was listening as the other father waxed lyrical, pointing out his children and all their little friends, getting them to wave over.

Two months previous, I was on a train and he sat opposite me, with a French lady with two small girls (maybe 3 and 5). I assumed they were together, he knew their names. He carried their suitcase. I assumed the stilted conversation was because the lady didn't have English as a first language. I also assumed they were together because he was teasing one of the girls until she screamed in frustration. He was also asking lots of questions, but not in an obvious way, such as "when do you go home?" What are you doing tomorrow?" "is your Dad missing you?" - which of course I was oblivious to on the train because it was general chit chat.

See him at sports day and think it's that annoying wind up merchant again "oh, I didn't know there were little French girls at this school". There aren't any little French girls at the school and they were too young to be in the KS3 sports day anyway.

See him at the bus stop and think "hang on a min" gut instinct kicks in, something just isn't right here.

So I've emailed school with a full description, a set of circumstances and no accusations, because he wasn't actually doing anything suspiciously.

*disclaimer, I don't see a paedophile behind every tree, but I am a believer in gut instinct. I don't know why the red flags shot up when I saw him again. Probably because he was a bit of charmer, again not in an obvious way, he was just very good at ferreting out information from people.

Probably an entirely coincidental set of innocent circumstances and he is a listener rather than a talker.

Would you have emailed the school?

Compo, I didn't know yer were a bloke! I agree. There is nothing suspicious about his behaviour at all. Op, why did you find him so annoying on the train?

"Imagine this bloke about whom you have not a shred of proof is up to anything wrong is a Doctor , a nurse, a teacher or a social worker? It could potentially wreck his career, over some half baked notion."

How could it? The man hasn't done anything illegal - they have been at a school sports day. The OP doesn't know the name of the man. The only way that this could be of any relevance is if someone at the school recognises the description and it is of someone that they know to have a history. The chances of that are very slim (especially as it seems no-one noticed on the day), but if they don't recognise the description, or they do and it is a parent, relative or staff member then there is no harm done.

Tbh I think the letter won't get far as surely people won't take it seriously? But if it is or even if people joke about it, it could be damaging yes. Some people might hear about it and think " there is no smoke without fire" . Imagine if someone you know (as an acquaintance) had had an accusation of pedophilia levelled at them for whatever daft reason. You'd be wary wouldn't you? You'd assume that whoever accused him had had good reason, and not simply that he was waiting for a bus.

That isnt the accusation being made though is it - the OP isnt making an accusation apart from that the person was at the sports day?

The OP doesnt have a name, only a description - If the school know who it is from that that will be either because they know who it is because they are a staff member, parent or other relative, or very unlikely, that they know who it was because it is someone with a history.
If the school don't know who the OP is talking about then realistically they will not do anything further.

fireice- unfortunately I've seen it happen. False allegations are very powerful things. I teach people with learning disabilities and this happened to a colleague of mine. Even though it was unfounded and he was cleared people gossiped, he lost confidence, he left in the end.

its not an allegation, it is simply raising awareness.

But what is the allegation here - that someone was at a school sports day? How would that ruin the career of a teacher/TA (it would be part of the job).

The thing is, the daft reason won't get out, only the accusation. It's impossible for the whole community to be told the full context and details (or lack of them) and so what is perpetuated is that someone had enough evidence to write a letter to the school.....people fill in the blanks when they haven't got the full story. That's the dangerous part. I too, as mentioned above, work with vulnerable young people and understand the importance of safeguards, vigilance, reporting, multi-agency approaches, etc. but I also know the damage a false allegation can do.

So why report anything? The allegation was clearly grooming

This type of bollocks is exactly the reason why children are abused for years.

Because slightly dim witted people believe that they are so attuned to the natural order of the world that they can just tell a peedo when they see one.

Can I ask, as someone who was abused for years because my charming, articulate abuser was carefully embedded within a bright and busy family, that we try to get our head around the idea that pedophiles succeed because they look and act exactly like us.

Most paedophile gain access to children without raising an eyebrow. That's how it works.
The loner who clumsily sets out social antena twitching is far more likely to be exactly that,a bit socially clumsy or possibly have sn or lds or is possibly just in an awkward situation.

The idea that we know, that instinct would kick in, that we just would get a creepy feeling is the very thing that blinds us to the real abusers because when we think we know who is dodgy, it kids us that we know who is ok.

The sooner we recognise that pedophiles are often hugely charming and manipulative the better for everyone.

How could it? The man hasn't done anything illegal

Such is the hysteria over child abuse that the headteacher will forward the letter to the police, in order to cover their own backside. He/she can't afford to just stick it in the desk drawer.

In certain jobs such as teaching or social work, an allegation of this nature would lead to you being escorted off the premises and suspended until the outcome of the investigation.

Advanced crb checks will record investigations/allegations of wrong doing even if they don't result in conviction. So potentially this person may have recorded on their that they were investigated for potential child abuse, but no charges were brought. Would be a hugely damaging to their job prospects.

Excellent and brave post pagwatch.

Excellent and brave post pagwatch

I agree.

'So potentially this person may have recorded on their that they were investigated for potential child abuse, but no charges were brought. '

But what person? The OP has no name for the person. The school will only recognise that description if the person was expected to be at the school (most likely), in which case them being at the school will be of no concern, or -very unlikely- because it is a person they positively know should not be at the school.

He could easily be identified if he was a parent/relative of a child at the school which the head would be duty bound to forward to the police despite the ludicrous nature of the letter.

The head would act on the information that a parent had been at a school sports day by informing the police Why? Would they do the same for all the other parents that they saw there that day too?

If the op isn't accusing him of being a potential paedophile, then what has she done? Apart from actually spelling it out in black and white that is exactly what she's insinuating. All the examples she gives, hanging around school gates (or waiting for a bus), being at a sports day without kids (or maybe he has got kids), trying to befriend a stranger with children (or maybe chatting to a friend), are set in the context that she suspects he may be a paedophile. And to investigate this man, would have to be from the angle that he is a suspected paedophile, and that mud may stick even if all the scenarios can be explained by the more innocent, and more likely explanation.

If they received a letter containing wider allegations of the type that the op has made, however vague and will be forwarded on.

Unfortunately there is the huge amount of arse-covering.

"Again that isn't a set of strange circumstances except ..."

You take three completely innocuous-sounding instances ('waiting at a bus stop just after a bus has been') and make out they're piling on some sort of 'proof' of your reasons to be suspicious - well, no. You could go on adding them - 'BUT. Then I saw him in ....' and it still wouldn't make it more 'suspicious'.

Very, very odd OP.

I can imagine that phone call.

Headteacher 'I have had a letter from a parent, about a man who was at our school sports day. There was nothing odd about his behaviour, but she had never seen him before. From the description it was obviously the dad of Lucy in yr 5, but I just thought I would let you know'

Police ' And?'

Or do you think they would go 'OMG, thanks for letting us know, you cant be too careful these days there could be a paedophile behind every tree, we will come out and investigate this ASAP'

Since when can members of the community not watch the sports day anyway? I always thought that the neighbours of the school got invited to these things. If not, they should. Most people aren't pedophiles, and even IF someone is a flasher, they are surely much more likely to do it when kids are playing out. Or o ou not let our kids play out either? Ffs. What happened to community?

Kids are brilliant to watch - they are cute and funny. I defy anyone to watch kids playing and not smile. My grandad used to sit in his porch at school run time, because he loved kids and he enjoyed watching them play. My Dad will happily chat and make jokes on trains with children. I chat with toddlers, and sometimes I not even know them! Shock! I used to live next to a sixth form and would often do my studying in the front garden because the teenagers were massively entertaining with their outfits and dramas. My nana used to do her washing up at playtime, because her sink was next to he window where she could see the school.

Of course, kids don't go into random houses without a trusted adult, you tell them to shout and run away if they are ever not happy, and you hopefully let them chat to the neighbours, because that is one of the main ways that sensible, normal people make sure they are safe. Mini gangs of children play in our street, and while no one is actually in charge, so many are glancing out of the window, chatting as they walk by and so on that the kids are safe. I would hate to think my neighbours felt they couldn't take an interest the children.

Haven't read all the replies, but I do think OP did the right thing.

There's an open air paddling pool and park that I used to take the kids to. Lots of fun in the summer, but I felt very uneasy about some of the men sitting on benches nearby who didn't appear to have children with them. However, they didn't seem to be doing anything I could reasonably object to and other parents I mentioned it to clearly thought I was paranoid. I left it.

A few weeks later, there was a front page article in the local paper about a parole hostel housing paedophiles in the area. It revealed that many of the residents had been seen in the play and paddling pool area, just watching...

Truly excellent post Pagwatch.

I work in chuild protection and it utterly boils my piss how people go on and on about PAEDOS in the community- whilst 99% of the cases we deal with are family members, or new boyfriends.

I once had to interview a woman whose new boyfriend had convictions for raping his daughter. She sat there and said to me 'Ah but I am very knowing and I could TELL he was a good man'

I agree with Mardyarse I work in a similar area and have been left astounded at the lack of awareness of some of the vulnerable young single mums. There have been instances where new partners have actually been on the register yet there woman can't or won't accept they pose a risk to their children. Then they wonder why social services are involved.